Home Forums Discussions Problems Database Connection Drop? - v6.1.2

Hi guys! I did a bit of searching on my problem, but I haven't been able to find anything directly related, so I figured I'd post it here.
Currently, we have Amazing Charts 6.1.2 installed on a central server running Server 2k3 SBS. We have about a dozen machines (75% Windows 7 laptops, 25% XP desktops) connecting up, all with 6.1.2 installed as well.

Every so often, all of the connections to the AC database on the server drop (such as twice last Friday, 7/27, a few times that week, and maybe once a couple weeks before that). The only way to bring everything back up is to go into Amazing Utilities and choose to 'Repair Connection'. Running 'Check Amazing Charts' shows an error under 'Database Definition Check' for a detached database.

While going through the server event logs, I came across some interesting entries leading up to the failure. It usually starts off with a single machine showing informational events about it stopping a number of processes (usually a couple dozen, as if it's shutting down):


After that, three errors occur, stating:


Followed by


After that, the connection is dropped and I start to see failed login attempts by users, but dozens by the SQL root account 'SA' (which I know AC uses for database access)



Only after I do the 'Repair Connection' do I stop seeing the logon attempts and start to see everything come back online. Once I see the informational events for "Starting up database 'AmazingCharts', everything is essentially back to normal.

I understand it's a bit of an odd issue, even more so since there doesn't seem to be any particular pattern to the failure. Have you guys seen anything like this before? Any possible causes for a dropped connection that you've seen in the past? I admit, I'm a bit new to working with Amazing Charts, so it may be that my information above is irrelevant. Let me know if there are any SQL or AC logs that can help!

Any help is appreciated!

I see two weeks have gone by without so much as a peep on this thread, which leads me to believe there is some confusion in my post. So! Let's take a step back, simplify things a bit, and see if anyone has any thoughts:

Let's go with extreme simplicity first: Connections to the Amazing Charts database drops from time to time. What are some possible causes for this to happen?

From there, I can troubleshoot through these causes and give feedback.

Wow I didn't even see this post. Sorry, I'll check it out now and get back to you.

Can you give us more details about your setup?


Do you have wired connections? Are your laptops wireless? Are you using a gigabit switch? etc. When did this start?

Hi Akorb,

Wow. I am just as stumped as Sandeep that we would not have seen this thread, especially given it is the type that we like to post in. Trust me, this is not representative of the user board. Normally, you could expect a reply on the same day you posted it even on the weekend.

Staying away from SQL for a moment, I agree that we need a bit more data. The first would be is it wireless. If so, that could be an issue. The number one reason for dropped connections, by far, is a wireless network. But, that is generally only one computer at a time.

Reading your error messages, though, does seem to point at SQL. It is even specific for the AC instance. It seems to reference a block in the database, causing it to drop a process. But, I am by no means a SQL expert. You may want to PM JamesNT.

I emailed your thread to Raja, who is my SQL Server consultant. He knows AC very well. He will be able to interpret the error messages rather easily. If it is a SQL issue and troubleshooting needs to be done within the database, he could likely do that by logging into your server. Unfortunately, Raja is getting married on the 20th.

In the meantime, have you considered uninstalling AC on the server including the instance? Possibly, a reinstall with SQL and creating a new instance would solve it. Of course, going against that would be that there are so many threads on the net where everyone is helping the user to fix the problem and not simply saying reinstall.

Do you mind my giving Raja your email address so he may contact you if he has time? Would you want to send your o.....a.com email address?

I sure hope Raja doesn't see it that way.

LOL. Are there still arranged marriages in India?

Unfortunately, yes.

Akorb,

Again, I apologize for not seeing this post. Please don't take this the wrong way, but just as it is helpful if we get back to you promptly, it is equally important for you to follow the thread and reply promptly.

I have PMd you with some VERY important information. Please take a look.

AKorb, make SURE that you have your settings for AC to notify you via email when a post or pM is made on a watched thread. You will see a flashing email icon at the top of the page when you have a PM, but this only helps when you log in to the user board. And, it can be missed.

I would strongly suggest if you would like to solve this problem quickly, that you enable those and make sure that the email address is one you check often.

Akorb
Next time your connection is dropped, just go to the server and start Amazing charts.You may login into AC and then logout.
Your connections to your workstations will be restored for AC.
I have tried pinging the Server, the router and they all reply back when the problem arises as you have described.
I have not bothered to check as why it happens as the solution seems pretty simple and painless. . Your workstation compluters will have to restart AC.
Give it a try and let me know it it works
Grenville

Akorb,

Just spoke with Raja. You have a two-day window to have him help you. Let me know if you're interested.

Thanks for all the support everyone! I'm just getting back from a bit of a break, so let's see if I can straighten out some questions.


The desktops are all wired, and the laptops are on wireless about 80% of the time.

And here's a bit more info:
Dell PowerEdge 2900 with Windows 2003 SBS
Connected to a Netgear FS116 16-Port unmanaged 10/100 switch (connects the desktops, server, random wall ports, wireless router, and firewall).
Wireless router is a Linksys WRT54GL (was fine when they were smaller, but things have changed. Upgrading to a Cisco Aironet in the coming months, which will certainly help). Also, if you say it's a wireless problem, I would totally believe you

The connection issues started before I came on as a co-consultant for them (about a year and a half ago). But again, these issues are incredibly random. The last time the connection dropped was when I first posted on July 27th. And that was just a week of connection issues...before July 27th, it had been weeks before the last occurrence, and before THAT it was well over a MONTH! When it's stable, it's stable for a while...but once the issues crop up, it's a week of problems until things settle down again.

I'm not sure that would make it a SQL problem. Usually if there's an issue in a database, the problem would be persistent (though I'm by no means an expert, so I could also very well be wrong).


Wireless was my first thought too. Could it be that a laptop is writing something to the database when it loses connection, and then another laptop tries to read the partial data and the database freaks out? Again, databases aren't really my strongest background so go easy on me

And I say let the man get married. He doesn't need to bother with me quite yet (at least not while everything is manageable). He can send to my email if he likes, that's fine.


Actually, that's more or less what I do as well sometimes. Logging in, as well as 'Repair Connections', work to restore the connection. That's why it's weird :P
And it is simple and painless, but the curious side of me is wondering if there's anything I should be doing to fix it (not to mention trying to figure out the cause in the first place).

Thanks for the feedback guys, I hope this helps.

First thing would be to go to a GIG switch, preferably one that will support VLAN/tagging; don't have to do that now, but that can help performance once you implement it.

Wireless is GOING TO BE SLOWER, and sometimes that will cause dropped connections. If you are upgrading the wireless, do a spectrum survey in each location you intend to use it, find the best (uncluttered, unoccupied) frequency, and then look at signal strength and consider repeaters. Lock the network down to the MAC addresses of the laptops so that spurious connection attempts are dropped faster.

When you get around to it, implement VLAN for AC traffic, and a squid proxy or edge network appliance to make the network run faster by blocking FB and YouLuze[Productivity & Bandwidth]

My big question is do you have issues with the wired desktops? That would answer your question right there.

Agree with the GB switch. Agree with getting rid of wireless. To make it clear to others that have wireless with no issues, that is great. But, if you are having dropped connections, then wired is the way to go. What's a random wall port?

It is unlikely that a computer would access partial data and have an issue. Data is data. Plus, you could try to access that data at the second it is written, and you wouldn't ever get it.

Raja is still working.

Cisco makes some nice gigabit switches. The SG200 is smart switch should you decide to implement those features that Indy mentioned later on. The 16 port version is like 255 while the 24 port version is like 290 so, if you're going to get that, might as well get the 24.

The SG100/SR20XX is their unmanaged version which also works pretty well too. Cisco Small Business SR2016T-NA (16 port) is about 190.

If you want to add more wireless access points, consider a PoE switch, but I'll stick with the wired recommendation.

Oh trust me, there's so much that I'd love to help build up at this site. Finding a way to finance the bigger purchases (such as Cisco gear, building re-wiring, and a nice managed switch) is a big problem. We've finally convinced them that upgrading wireless is a must...and that's after making our first case for it over 7 months ago

But let's go back to the basics here. This is a small physicians office of about a dozen employees. They don't need $400 switches capable of VLANs and the like. As it is, wireless is locked down via RADIUS authentication. Web access is strictly controlled through the firewall.

Eventually they're looking to move into a new, more spacious, building (during the coming months). New equipment (mainly the wireless AP, switch, some phones, and a computer or two) will be purchased for the move. When that time comes I'll have much more fun stuff to work with!


Technically, since the connection drops for everyone there are issues on the wired desktops :P ..but they've never been part of the cause of the drop as far as I've seen (so yeah..damn you wireless!). Usually it's someone working on a laptop that calls in noting the problem, and then no one else can connect either.

And moving to an all-wired environment would be fantastic...but not practical. The doctors love to walk around with their laptops and into each patient's room with everything already brought up without having to sit down at a desktop.

As for 'random wall ports', I suppose I should explain their current building situation. It's more of an old house retrofitted as a physician's office. And wiring this old house with Ethernet didn't really consist of using a 110 punch block or patch panel...more of just cables in walls going between floors. The new building, however, is an actual commercial place and is professionally wired.

To put it simply, I'm not working under normal tech conditions

I meant to mention wireless access points. Good call, Sandeep.

I realize you work for them, but I would be tempted to tell it to them straight. What they are asking you to do is paint the entire building with half a can of paint. This is one of the examples my other specialist constantly refers to. The doctors have mission critical data, yet they want to trust it to cheap equipment.

OK, so they like to go in with his or her laptops so everything is all set to go. So, how set to go is it when they drop the connection and someone has to run to the server, and everyone has to restart Amazing Charts.

I do not know how a wireless laptop could drop its connection and cause other computers to drop its connection. I could go around my office and pull the Ethernet cables out of each computer one by one, and my other computers wouldn't drop their connections. I, also, am not a SQL guru. I just know that connections are dropping, and you are getting SQL errors and my friend didn't read them and say they had nothing to do with it.

What has AC said about this?

Sorry for being blunt, but you know what to do, but you have nothing to work with. I agree you don't need VLANs (now). I wouldn't think a 24-port switch for $400 would be that much. You, and I know you know this, have to think about buying equipment that will go to the new office.

But, I guess I would just tell them if they want the wireless laptops, they will have to get used to the dropped connections. Although, I can't say it is that for sure.

Tried that a number of times. They're starting to get the picture, which is why they're giving us bigger budgets in the coming months. There were a number of problems at this client, and we've been turning them around as best we can, but I know it'll take another 6 months to a year to get everything to 100%.


Unfortunately this seems to be a common theme these days...mostly in small practices (not just doctors). Hopefully this gets better in the coming years.


I usually just remote in and fix it within 20-30 seconds. Not a big deal at all, just more of an inconvenience (and annoyance when they're working with Patients). And yes, this has been part of my argument to get better equipment

So:

A) Are they going to deal with dropped connections for a year? (last time I ask that question -- promise)

B) From the beginning of the thread, I thought you worked in their office in some capacity and knew more about networking, so you were stuck with the job. It sounds more and more like you are an IT consultant.

Do you mind telling us more about yourself. I am interested based on your thread.

A) Yeah, seems that way. As long as it isn't a pressing matter that effects them daily, they forget that it's an issue. They like to forget, but I don't. The issue will always loom in the back of my mind!

B) Ah sorry about that, I should have made myself a bit more known. I am indeed a consultant of sorts. I work for a small IT company (under 10 employees) called Open Approach, Inc. We provide IT consulting services and Network Administration to mainly small businesses.
We don't have a web presence yet..we're more of a 'Word of Mouth' organization for now (which has done us quite well over the past few years), but that'll be changing in the next few years.
My official title is Systems Administrator, but I consider myself on the Junior level. I'm learning everyday to get myself up to the normal SysAdmin status

As for me; I'm a college grad with a Business Administration degree (going for my long-term career goal of Information Systems Management), a decent background in IT, and a mountain of student loan debt.

Join the club on the debt, lol. You gotta laugh, right?

Thanks for sharing. Always good to know.

By the way. If you could, make a signature with your first name and then something like, IT consultant, etc. Up to you, but it helps everyone to address you by your first name and know what you do.

If there is anything I can do for you, Amazing Charts User Board-wise, just let me or Wendell know.