Home Forums Discussions Problems SQL 2012 unable to upgrade to 6.6

According to Guardian Support we are unable to successfully upgrade because our PM software runs on SQL 2008. Evidently, SQL 2012 and SQL 2008 are incompatible. My recommendation was to set up either AC or the PM on another computer. (Which I am against since we spent a lot of money on a new server less than 2 years ago)Also, there was mention of a virtual server.

I have contacted my IT people and they believe they can fix the problem and say the SQL 2012 and 2008 are compatible but in order for my IT people to do this they need the admin user name and password for SQL 2012 that AC has and will not give out. My IT people were also told that if they were able to fix the issue that AC would not support our office any longer. This is quite upsetting as we pay for Guardian Support and I would think this means they would work with our IT to get this solved in order to be able to get the updates/upgrades we are paying for.

Has anybody else had this problem or any advice?
Thanks,
Robynne

2008 and 2012 are not incompatible.

It may be a matter of how your IT folks approached this - AC will not give out the sa [admin] password, but they will cooperate to get AC installed on a full version of SQL. At that point they won't offer support for operating the full SQL environment.

So, if you want both, you may want to consider installing AC as a virtual server on your existing server so the two remain separate.

I have three versions of SQL installed. Just figured this out today. Seems to be causing issues. So just to confirm, I should delete 2008 and 2012? Thanks!

David Lee, MD
Dallas,TX

I think we need to be more clear on what "compatible" means. From Robynne Lacey's post, I take compatibility to mean "Can I run different versions of SQL Server on the same computer at the same time?"

The answer is yes. The screen shots below will show that I am running multiple versions of SQL Server on the same Windows Server 2008 R2 computer at the same time. This is a supported configuration by Microsoft.

* SQL Server 2005 SP4
* SQL Server 2008 R2 SP2
* SQL Server 2012 SP1

In order to install all these instances that are different versions, certain rules must be followed. You can't just click Next, Next, Next then finish. For example, SQL 2005 MUST be installed first immediately followed by Service Pack 4 for SQL 2005. Then you can move on to 2008 R2. You must also know which components will conflict so you can avoid installing them or go back and configure them correctly. And you must know how this will affect your server so that you can configure things properly. For example, multiple instances do NOT share memory so that means having more RAM if you need it. There are other things to know but they are beyond the scope of this post.

What we have to understand is Amazing Charts, like most any other company, is going to limit what they will support. They do this to keep support costs down. The more people calling in for support, the more support people they have to hire which means less tech-support renewals that go to the bottom line. For companies like Amazing Charts, new sales are nice but tech-support renewals pay the bills. Therefore, it is only logical to conclude that the customers who install AC on their cheap Best Buy computer they are using as a server or want custom installations are the ones who will usurp the most cookies out of the jar.

While I agree that the limitations imposed by Amazing Charts are especially annoying for those of us, like me, who truly know what they are doing those limitations are, nevertheless, understandable.

In conclusion, your best option is to move your PM and Amazing Charts to their own virtual machines. If you have Windows Server 2012 Standard as the host operating system on your server, you can install two virtual machines for free. If you have Windows Server 2008 Standard or Windows Server 2008 R2 Standard you may install one virtual machine. You will need to purchase a second copy of Windows Server Standard for the second virtual machine (if you purchase Windows Server 2012 Standard, you'll be licensed for three virtual machines as you will still have the original copy of Windows that came with your server).

It is quite correct that AC will not divulge the SA password for SQL Server which I find to be most deplorable. The data belongs to the practice, not Amazing Charts. They merely provide a tool for organizing said data and meeting government mandates. You should consult with your IT Pro's regarding any upgrades you may need for your server to run multiple copies of Windows.

Screenshots:

Services snap-in showing all SQL Server instances:



Start Menu showing all SQL Server entries:



All SQL Server Enterprise Managers open:



JamesNT

Thanks James. Nice post.

Yes, thanks for your help! Our AC seems to be quite slow, so that is why I updated. Would it help to take the other two versions off the server?

David Lee, MD
Dallas, TX

I am not James, but I would be careful with doing that without a SQL expert. For instance on my server, I can run 2012, but many other things like SharePoint and Internal database run on 2005.

If you close AC or disable the service, then go to Task Manager and Processes, you will likely find instances of other uses of SQL.

James feel free to correct me.

Thank you, James. I will forward your info to my IT people. Hopefully they will come up with a solution.

We're using version 6.5.6, and AC just today told my IT guy that SQL 2012 is compatible, and that is what we're running. Totally confused at this point, and SQL is such a memory hog, would love to get down to just one version if possible. Any help is appreciated.

David Lee, MD
Dallas, TX

That's good. But, how is SQL a memory hog. That's the problem with Express, you ONLY get 1 GB of memory. I would kill for the 64 GB maximum of the standard SQL 2012. The more memory, the faster SQL is.

1 GB for Express, which is its limiting factor is not nearly enough to run a database efficiently.

If you don't need the other SQLs, which my guess is you do, then turn off the memory.

I have seen an instance of 6.6 using ~3.5G already with 2012 Express

The 1GB limit in SQL Server Express is for the database buffer - how much of the database is cached in memory. Other components of SQL Server will consume what they need to work.

JamesNT

Our SQL uses 3.6 GB memory even before upgrading to SQL 2012. Is this abnormal??? That is why I first upgraded to 2012 (which AC says works with AC), but don't think I need 3 versions all running at the same time???

David Lee, MD
Dallas, TX

I have to agree with Indy. After a previous mention about about how much memory SQL 2012 uses, I checked my server and it it was using about 3.8 G of memory in the task manager. On my other server, it is using 2.6 G right now. AC is using about 340,000

James is correct here and I misunderstood what people were saying, mainly because people always assume that SQL has a memory leak. Generally, the running of SQL will use nearly the same amount of memory, but you will notice some memory going from 0 to 1GB. Many would consider that a "memory leak" which is not correct. It doesn't leak memory. Many 32-bit OS with 4GB of memory which then translates to 3.2GB of useable memory will crash or become very slow once SQL grabs the memory it wants. If SQL is allowed to use 10GB of memory or some can get 64PBs of memory, it will try to use all that memory. The settings can be controlled.

The aforementioned OS has 3.2GBs of usable memory. Then SQL takes an 1GB of memory. Subtract all of the memory being used, and you run out of memory and your computers run VERY slowly. When you reboot the server, you may think that was the reason, but basically SQL releases all the stored memory. That is NOT a good thing. As James said, that is cache or what some would call pages. Every time you query information from AC's database, SQL says correctly, "This information is likely to be asked for again. Let's store it in memory as a page." The next time you use that query, SQL gets the info from memory and not from the database on the hard drive. Eventually, that page gets copied over after time as it has not been used.

James knows more about this than I, but it would be nice if the cache could be saved during reboots.

I guess it is the definition of the word hog. Intensive programs such as SQL or Exchange are going to use more RAM than other programs. If you have enough RAM which is why you need 64-bit OS, then it doesn't matter. If you install 64 GB of RAM it is of little or no consequence if SQL takes 3.5 GB of that. If in the end, you need 30 GBs of RAM, you still have 34 GBs of RAM left.

It should also be asked here if everyone is configuring their page files to work effectively. These are not the same as the page files contained in cache with SQL.

Our big problem seems to be that SQL is using the processor and not the RAM??? Not a computer expert here, but when I view task manager, the RAM is low, but the processor is maxing out throughout the day as multiple people are getting data from the server. Is this common, or is there something wrong/correctable on my server? Thanks again for any help.

David Lee, MD
Dallas, TX

I am going to make a guess that your performance bottleneck is Disk I/O.

What speed is the dis/array that contains your SQL data?

Most folks are having good success moving their data to a SSD RAID1 or better. That way execution isn't sitting in a queue waiting for data. Kind of like Disneyland with only one bobsled running. Nothing like a slow E ticket ride.

Indy, showing your age, using E-ticket

Yep. Was wondering if anyone would pick up that retro-reference.

Disneyland - what a place - I remember years later working with a project manager in the space program, and she had worked previously @ Disney engineering. Said that was a more demanding environment than launch vehicles.

I picked up on the reference right away. I'm just not stupid enough to use in some shape form or fashion the word "old" in the same sentence as the name of a guy who had a brick wall fall on him and was able to get up and walk away from it.

JamesNT