Home Forums Discussions Problems Large Backups

So about the only thing I can think of for large backups is USB Thumb Drive.

One of my clients generates a 3GB ENC file during the backup process. We are backing up imported items (due to NYS regulations).

The 3GB file often doesnt backup to AC offsite backup anymore, I guess because its just too large.

We have standard business class high speed (Road Runner from Time Warner Cable) which is a 5MB Download x 768KB Upload.

There is no option from our cable company to increase the speed without going to fiber at 40x the price.

Amazing Charts suggested just backing up to another USB type hard drive at the office, but I don't know how this protects you in the event of water damage (leaky pipe), lightning, fire, etc. (unless you were to take the USB Drive home).

Honestly my clients don't really know how to backup themselves and take it home anyways.

So the best thing I can come up with is backing up once a week (myself) to a USB Flash Drive, and rotating two flash drives because the doctor would like to take it home with them.

I would be getting an IronKey due to the hardware based encryption and we definitely dont want the ENC file in the wrong hands. *After ten bad passwords the $100 ironkey becomes a paperweight* Good if its in the wrong hands, bad if you forget your password.

Has anyone had any luck with doing something crazy. -- Like Site-to-Site VPN using freefilesync to comparing the deltas on imported items and copying them to a remote computer and for the SQL portion having SQL 2005 Standard clustered with a server sitting across the VPN, or having a script dump SQL and copy it over the VPN and drop it to another server.

Or is the USB Thumb drive just the way to go here???...

I don't what NYS Regulations specifically require that Amazing Chart's Backup utility should make .enc backup files containing imported items. If the policy makers went that in depth kudos to them.

That flash drive method seems pretty inefficient. It's simple don't include imported items in the backup. Just backup the imported items folder directly using your offsite backup provider (e.g. Carbonite, Mozy). That way the imported items will be incremental while your database will likely be less than 200 MB. That way it'll just be your database, probably < 200 MB per night. I have the exact same connection.

You should probably use something like this on site: http://www.amazon.com/Fireproof-Waterproof-External-Recovery-SL1000GBUSB20/dp/B001TNR8EI

Why not backup to a service like Jungledisk? After the first backup the others are incremental, so only the data that has changed has to go over the wire. You can also backup to a local hard drive and automate that process for double redundancy.

There are also other methods available that will let them backup offsite locally. Backup Assist+Rsync is one useful way. SFTP is another.

There are 3 Main Backups You want:
1. Onsite - External Hard Drive/NAS
2. Offsite Local (SFTP/Rsync) - Home or some other office
3. Offsite (out of state/country) - Carbonite/Mozy/iBackup

Hi Christopher,

Sandeep is correct, there are other options for backing up when you have a large Imported Items folder. One good method is to use a 3rd party software like Carbonite, Mozy, etc.
These backup options are fine for backing up Windows folders and files.
The Imported Items folder is a Windows folder and is not an actual part of the database files.
Now one thing you have to remember is that you cannot use these 3rd party backup options to back up the Amazing Charts database files. They will backup the database files but the backups would not be any good to restore from.
To copy the database files for backup, the Amazing Charts SQL service must be stopped while the files are copied.
That is what the AC backup utility actually does. It stops the service, copies the database files then restarts the service.

So an option would be to use the AC backup for the database files and send them offsite. Also use Carbonite or Mozy to backup your Imported Items folder, plus whatever other Windows folders and files you may want to backup offsite.

Here is a link to a great video about backup options with Amazing Charts.
This was at the 2011 ACUC and was presented by our Network Administrator Mark.

http://amazingcharts.com/support/i-want-to-help-myself/video-tutorials/?tx_acvideos_videogallery[video]=86&tx_acvideos_videogallery[category]=5&tx_acvideos_videogallery[controller]=VideoGallery&cHash=bdf7c1ba9fc94c8403f832bf8c962bef

I hope this helps you out.

Thank you,
Anthony@AC

Great video, but try not to think of the three ways I mentioned as options. I think you should be doing all 3. Each one is protecting you from a different thing. There is no one universal backup solution.

1. Onsite - External Hard Drive/NAS (Maybe you get a virus or something happens to your server, rapid recovery would be possible with an onsite solution.)
2. Offsite Local (SFTP/Rsync) - Home or some other office (In case something happens at your office, maybe there's some sort of flooding in the office or the server gets stolen. Really good to have that backup at home for a rapid restore.
3. Offsite (out of state/country) - Carbonite/Mozy/iBackup/Amazon S3 (This one should be used in case of a major natural disaster. e.g. large earthquake, hurricane, etc. There are services that will mail your data to you if necessary as well.)

#1 and #2 are just one time costs of an external hard drive. Rsync is free. Or use some SFTP solution. Backup Assist just makes it easy to implement both.
#3 is going to be an annual or monthly cost.

Actually, I have to jump in here some. I have to admit I didn't want the entire video. I am not sure how many external drives it recommended. Personally I use five, plus SBS Image plus NAS at least 200 feet away. A hard drive is the most likely part to crash in a computer and this goes for external as well.

Not only can you back up offsite to proprietary companies, you can Rsync to a computer somewhere else such as home. Much cheaper and likely safer.

Taking one home daily (difficult) or weekly is the cheapest and best way to save your practice. I still find flash drives a little scary as I have lost more than I own (which is a lot). Just so easy to lose.

One thing though that is not correct to say is that you cannot use 3rd party software to backup AC. There are some very expensive backup programs out there that wouldn't sell if that were the case. One way to back up SQL is to stop there service. Another way is to back up using VSS or Volume Shadow Services. Backup Assist also allows you to purchase an extra license for their version called Open Files.

This goes right into my statements I have made over the past few months about online backups. It is really helpful to ensure the company can use VSS. Some will say they do, then in the small print, they say you need to use a 3rd party program to back it up properly, and then they back it up somewhat like what Anthony mentions.

In my opinion, your single most important backup is the external backup in the office. Sure, do the others, but floods and fires are rare, why do you think home insurance is cheaper than car insurance unless you live in Kansas, Miami or Southern California.

For some, having the backup default to the AC folder is good. For a lot of us, we wish it could be turned off. It is a double edged sword for many. They think they are protected, but it is in the absolute worst place to put a backup. If they do an external, that is OK.

But, Acronis, Backup Assist, BackupExec, and many others or real-time backup software are all very capable of backing up Exchange Server, SQL, SharePoint even while the server is running. The snapshots are taken, and the backup is made from that point in time.

And, while I am at it, back up the ENTIRE computer and then back up using AC's backup software. And, your billing software. And, any other important programs you use for your practice.

Question on offsite backup services......
A year or two back, the discussions were about Jungle disk vs. Carbonite. The cognoscenti seemed to feel that JD was the superior option, and Carbonite more suited for home computing. We have been using JD, testing it regularly, and are quite happy. I use Carbonite for a bunch of lesser applications and computers because it is easy, but find pretty often that the backup just dies on one computer or another, and I have to delete it and reinstall. Why does Jungle Disk seem no longer favored for a really important backup?

I don't think anyone said anything against Jungle Disk. I usually speak out against Carbonite. Their restores are slow and the limit your bandwith once you reach a certain amount. The application has been iffy for me as well. I actually moved to iBackup. Man, their restore speeds max out my connection here at UCLA. I was downloading at 12 Megabytes a second (~100 Megabits/second). I downloaded my AC database in under 20 seconds. They also have a mail-in service for large backups/restores. (I believe it's free if you sign up for their 500GB plan). A lot pricier than other backup services out there, but it backsup SQL, SharePoint, Exchange, System State, and good ol' files. (Pretty much SBS 2008/2011)

I have been using Crashplan and am well-pleased

Honestly I can't find anything about encryption on Mozy or Carbonite, which is why I wouldn't even consider using that service (HIPAA regulations). Jungle Disk looks promising (AES-256), especially if we do the imported items as suggested (file folder copy). We can then do the DB backup without imported items and get it down to 850MB which is still quite big, but I'm guessing that it will make it though a night before were in the office the next day on a 768Kb/s upload.

@Sandeep -- I'll also look into iBackup (they also have the AES-256 encryption)


I would really only be interested in backing up AC, The server is in a RAID1 Mirror (250GB Drives) and then it has 1TB in a Mirror that is used for a bare metal restore (Windows 2008 R2 Backup feature). I'm not really worried about loosing the data locally, more like loosing the data in the event of a mini disaster.

Carbonite Security: http://www.carbonite.com/en/terms-of-use/security
Mozy Security: http://docs.mozy.com/docs/en/user-home-win/guide/tasks/install_change_encryption_win_c.html

Only reason I went with iBackup is because of all the features, Exchange backup, SharePoint backup, etc. If you don't use those, it's probably not worth it.

iBackup has capacity for VSS as you suggest.