Home Forums Discussions Problems Slow to open charts on Windows XP clients only

Hi there - have an odd issue that I'm trying to sort out, and wondering if anyone else has run into it before.

The problem: Windows XP workstations take ~30 seconds to open a patient chart in AC.

Background:
We have a small office with 6 client workstations and 1 server. Everything is running Windows 7 Pro (including the "server") except for two workstations still on Windows XP Pro. The windows XP workstations take about 30 seconds to open a new patient chart. Once the chart's open, speed seems to be fine within AC. The windows 7 workstations open charts nearly instantly. All workstations are on similar, modern hardware.

This past weekend I did a server rebuild to upgrade our server from it's 256GB HDD to dual 1TB HDDs setup in RAID 1 configuration. Amazing Charts reinstalled easily enough, and the server was setup as close to identical as possible to avoid having to do any reconfiguring on the clients. No reconfiguration was necessary on the clients, and once I brought them back up, they connected without issue or needing any configuration changes.

So why are the WinXp clients having issues now where before they did not?

Have tried already:
*Doublechecking share permissions set properly server side
*Verifying ports 61067 open on firewall (TCP/UDP, in and out)
*Turning Windows 7's file sharing encryption down from 128 bit to 40/56 bit
*Turning off "hardware acceleration" on the Windows XP clients (suggested by AC support)


We're running AC 6.09. Our LAN is 1Gbps throughout and I've tested the throughput, so the network itself is not causing the lag. I'm assuming it's a configuration within the server, since that is the only thing that's changed.

Ideas?

thanks!

This is a long shot, did you try mapping the AC folder to a network drive? Use the IP directly instead of the name. e.g. \\192.168.X.X\Amazing%20Charts



Also just try disabling password protected sharing.

The four things you looked at don't seem like they would have anything to do with it especially the ports, etc. They generally let something in or don't. Having said that, if you have McAfee or Norton suites on either XP Pro machine, I would UNINSTALL them.

Any company such as Acronis or Backup Assist will tell you to upgrade before almost anything else. I would upgrade to v6.2x.

I doubt it is anything on the server, although hard to tell.

The other fix would be to buy two more WIN 7 Pros and get rid of the XP Pro. This is the perfect situation where having mix and match makes troubleshooting more difficult.

Are all the clients in the same workgroup? You may want to run through the join workgroup routine on the XP computer - right click on Computer, select Properties, select the Computer name tab, select Change, then enter the workgroup name. You may actually have to enter a different workgroup first then change it back to get the system to re register the workgroup name.

When I had my problems with installing AC and the network, I found a bunch of things that can slow Win XP and Win 7 network connection speed. The following is based on the fact that your rebuild of the server is not *exactly* as before the rebuild, since you say that nothing on the XP computers were changed. Maybe the rebuild caused some discrepancy with the XP computers that weren't there before the rebuild on the Win 7 server.

You may now be subject to the "slow network transfers between Win XP and Win 7". There are a bunch of stuff on this if you Google this. Maybe one or more of the suggestions there will help.

One, which fixed my problem, is a registry key on Win XP that concerns the "task scheduler".

http://www.speedguide.net/articles/lan-tweaking-1607

I only did the "disable network task scheduler" stuff, since I found that in numerous Google search links. In my case, the first time browsing to a networked computer in network neighborhood took *many* seconds, where other computers doing the same thing took a second or less.

Of course, this assumes that the "change" in the Win 7 server is the cause that the Win XP now has problems. Hope something helps....

Does it seem to get stuck at "Checking Database Integrity?"

Also, have you tried the simple thing of uninstalling and reinstalling AC on those computers?

What happens when you connect XP directly to the server using a crossover cable?

Under Amazing Utilities used in Run As Administrator and under Advanced, have you timed the ping connection to the server?

Thanks for all the responses! The issue is partially resolved. I turned off "Let windows manage a Homegroup" and switched it over to "Use user/password authentication" - which I'm certain is how we had it setup on the previous build - I just forgot to make that switch this time. The result is that the first chart opened takes about 30 seconds to open. Subsequent charts open immediately. This is, at least, drastically better. Still not sure what's causing that initial lag, but I am going to try and reinstall AC on one of the XP boxes and see if it makes a difference.



In response to all your questions...


Interesting idea... I tried it but unfortunately no change.




Hesistant to do that since we have shared office space, minimal security, and a pretty lax userbase. I'm wondering if it wouldn't solve the problem outright, however, so I'll probably test it when nobody else is around and see if it works.




I would love to! Unfortunately, budget is tight and we have to make these couple last a bit longer. Regardless, we'll definitely have to upgrade before MS drops support in 2014.




Yes.




Good idea - I tried that and no change.




No.




No - good idea, that will probably be the next thing I try.




Haven't tried because it'd be physically very inconvenient to do so.




From one of the Windows XP machines I'm getting a time of 0.7s on average, which is over twice as slow as the 0.3s I'm getting from my Windows 7 machine I'm typing on currently. I have no frame of reference for those times, though, so 0.7s still sounds decent, and like it shouldn't warrant a 30 second delay to chart opening.

0.7 is very fast.

We actually noticed this at our practice as well with 6.1.2, we've decided for $139.00 you can get a OEM copy of windows 7 and install it on the computer. This obviously fixed the issue but I am still unsure why XP was slow.

Server: HP DL160 G6 - 2.0GHz Quad Core Xeon, 12GB RAM, 250GB 7200RPM in RAID1.

Workstation: Lenovo 1.86 Core2Duo, 2GB RAM, 160GB Hard Drive (XP) upgraded to Windows 7.

forgot to mention that all clients are on a gigabit network from server to desktop.

The reinstall of AC on the WinXp machine did not make any difference.

Also, it seems that given enough time (15-30 minutes) with only one chart open, the next chart opened still takes about 30 seconds to open again. After that first one opens, subsequent charts open immediately still... but for a provider seeing patients it still appears to be going slow "all the time."

Next up, I will try disabling password protected sharing completely tonight or tomorrow early morning and see if that helps.

Alex I hope you don't find this condescending, but in troubleshooting, getting everything out of the middle helps. How difficult would it be to move it? If it is still slow, at least you get the patch cord, Ethernet run and switch out of the equation.

Have you tried installing a full AC on the computer with SQL and everything and run it to see what it does? Seems that would make it a network issue to a degree.

Yeah, our machines were built by Dell so OEM licenses don't technically apply. I could get upgrade licenses to Win 7 Pro for around $150, but then am stuck with having to install XP first in the instance of ever having to rebuild the machine. Retail copies of Win 7 Pro are about $250, which is about half the cost of a new machine.

If it comes down to it I will probably swap one of our office staff machines running Win 7 with our provider who is still on XP as a hold over until we have the budget to purchase new units.

I guess licenses aren't my strength, but why can't you upgrade over XP that you have now? What version do you have now?

I think the main reason people have slowness issues with AC is that they aren't running it on a "Server" but rather a desktop or beef-ed up desktop. I sorta blame Amazing Carts for this, they try to tell you that you dont need anything special to keep the "costs" down. Well I think it simply isn't so. Spend the money on a decent server, with a server operating system, and you wont have any issues. It doesnt hurt with AC to also have a Gigabit network and if you have clients that are wireless (upgrade to wireless-n).

Sandeep has some good threads on making your own server, but if thats not your thing, I would just purchase a HP Proliant Server, With a Xeon processor, 6GB+ of memory, and 500GB+ of hard drive space (with RAID in a RAID 1 aka Mirror) so you would need two 500GB drives.

If you have questions and want to ask me directly about what I mentioned feel free to send me a message.

Not really, you could buy an OEM Copy of windows and install it on any computer. Microsoft specifies that its is for a "new" computer, but most places that sell you OEM copies anyways. It is a grey area the in EULA but when push comes to shove and you can support it yourself, buy an OEM copy.


Newegg has it for 139.00 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116992

Absolutely true, and if this happened out of the blue to one machine I think I would try that. But I don't think it's a physical network issue since that would assume that both XP machines (each having identical issues) all of a sudden had something happen to their physical networking. I think it has more to do with how they are logically connecting to the server rather than anything physical. All machines in the office are connected directly to the same unmanaged gigabit switch, and it's possible both those machines' switch ports or cables went bad, but I would be surprised.

No, I haven't. I'm not really sure what I'd learn by doing that though?


Absolutely true. We're running a Xeon E5410 (that's a quad core) @ 2.3 GHz with 8GB memory and dual 1TB 7200RPM drives in RAID 1. So in terms of hardware we're sufficient for what we're doing. Why we're running Windows 7 Pro on it? I have no idea, I inherited it that way, and so far we haven't had the budget or any meaningful reason to upgrade to Windows SBS. We don't run a wireless network because we don't have the need for it and it's one more piece to secure. (Wireless router default security is still a joke without isolating the network and using a VPN tunnel, IMHO).


Thanks again for all the suggestions! You guys are all super helpful and I really appreciate it!

Absolutely true. We're running a Xeon E5410 (that's a quad core) @ 2.3 GHz with 8GB memory and dual 1TB 7200RPM drives in RAID 1. So in terms of hardware we're sufficient for what we're doing. Why we're running Windows 7 Pro on it? I have no idea, I inherited it that way, and so far we haven't had the budget or any meaningful reason to upgrade to Windows SBS. We don't run a wireless network because we don't have the need for it and it's one more piece to secure. (Wireless router default security is still a joke without isolating the network and using a VPN tunnel, IMHO).


Thanks again for all the suggestions! You guys are all super helpful and I really appreciate it![/quote]

Personally speaking, I wouldn't want to run SBS on the same server as AC. SBS has Windows Update Server, Exchange, SharePoint, etc. I think your just going to slow things down even more. I typically tell the Doctors I work for to just get Server 2008 R2. It's worked out really well for them (although I wish SQL Standard came with it).

Your "Server" seems very decent, an E5410 is pretty new. What are the specs of the workstations?

1. Either way, it would take the network out of the equation. No one ever thinks it is their network. Once I spent three days on Experts-Exchange troubleshooting a weird computer problem.

Expert 1) Try this incredible thing. Tried it. Didn't work.

Overlooked guy ) Try changing the keyboard. Ignored it.

Expert 2) Try this esoteric thing. Tried it. Didn't work.

Overlooked guy ) Try changing the keyboard.

________________________________

Changed the keyboard.Fixed.

You never know what it is. You changed some things on server or XP. XP doesn't work. So maybe it is the network.

SBS and SharePoint and Exchange and WSUS work great together. I would hate to pick my server due to AC. Our hospital uses Windows 2008 Standard R2. I will take SBS and 75 clients.

Bert, I don't disagree, SBS is very nice. I just don't think I would run AC on the same server as SBS. AC on Server 2008 R2 Standard is very very fast.

AlexS --> if you have Support with AC. I would actually upgrade to the beta 6.1.2 I think that will actually fix your slowness issues without buying anything.

I do think XP is slower then Win 7 for sure, but I really am starting to think that the main issue your having is actually 6.0.9. When we were running 6.0.9 we were miserable.

In a former life I managed compliance for the IS dept of a Hospital in Seattle, so I'd go with... no, OEM is not a legitimate upgrade path. But I get that it works, and for the small guys it's not really an issue. I think the only thing grey about it is that MS doesn't really audit folks to my knowledge. Here is the OEM builders license if you're curious.

Link


The workstation I've been testing on primarily is an i7 920 with 3GB ram (max for its 32bit Win Xp Pro) and a couple of aging 7200rpm hard drives. The other affected station is a E5300 w/ 2GB ram and another aging 7200rpm hdd.


@Bert - good reminder.


@stylnchris - We've been holding off on upgrading AC versions since up until now, we haven't had any issues with 6.0.9 and we figured we'd rather not trade up and gain issues.


Upgrading to 6.1.0 or 6.1.2 is probably one of the next things we'll try, and we'll cross our fingers that a non-beta version 6 comes out soon.


For now I'm thinking the fastest way to appease the userbase is to swap Win 7 machines onto the desks that matter most while trying to determine the root cause.

AlexS,

Can you try upgrading to 6.1.2 with a back out plan (image the servers hdd, reinstall on the client, or etc) or is it policy not to run beta? Thinking back, there is a HUGE difference between 6.0.9 and 6.1.2. HUGE.

6.1.2 is much faster, including in the prescriptions window.

If you need to know how to backup AC and Restore I can provide details (they are also all over the UB if you search -- I prefer Bert's method).

This really sounds like the issue that I had with browsing the Win 7 computer from the XP Pro computer through Network Neighborhood. The first try, takes a long time (30 seconds sounds about right). Then, subsequent browsing is essentially immediate (less than a second). The registry key for "task scheduler" that I mentioned above fixed this "slow initial access". I know looking through registry and/or making changes is "risky", but this one is well documented. If you're comfortable with it, you should at least look in the registry and see if that "task scheduler" key is there.

Also, we're using v6.1.2, so I'm not sure the AC version mattered in our case.

For SQL Express which is capped at 1GB of RAM, it's not going to make a difference on an SBS Standard Server assuming you have enough RAM. SBS is just a much better value for the money. Exchange Server is included. Preconfigured RWA, SharePoint. The CALs are cheaper. If you get the essentials version, you don't even have to pay for CALs. Like Bert, I'd take SBS 2011 over Server 2008R2.

thanks for the info in the link.

I guess the verbage your concerned about is:

Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software or Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder
and accept this license. ?System Builder? means an original equipment manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software
pre-installer that sells the Customer System(s) to a third party.

I guess how the doctors I work for get away with this is I am refurbishing their computers for them... charging them for the software and my time.

So I guess I was wrong. If your doing it yourself at your own practice, then I guess it does clearly violate EULA.

I guess you could always have someone "refurbish" your computers for you, perhaps this would cost more then getting the correct license?

Honestly, your right though, microsoft isn't checking and I'm sure people do get away with it.

I always thought the "grey" part was you could refurbish your own computers, but I see the "third-party" verbage in there too..

:-/


I guess at least I can admit when I'm wrong, thanks for point that out.

Did you reset the path to the database when you did this? Just mapping the drive won't do anything.

I don't think I have ever seen a thread go so fast during the middle of a work day.

I know the experts on Experts-Exchange always get frustrated with me when I don't try A, give the feedback, B, then give the feedback. Of course, difficult when you get 10 suggestions at once.

SOLVED - ran Wireshark to see what exactly was going on at the packet layer. Looks like the client was requesting info from InstantMedicalHistory.... that was an old service we had installed, but I did not reinstall it since we no longer used it. I didn't do the original installation, so I was unaware there was a integrated piece for that turned on in AC. Turned it off on the server, restarted AC, Windows XP clients now open charts immediately.

Wooh!

Thanks everybody for your help and encouragement!!!

@Bert - did try to move the PC first and direct connect to server, no luck.

@stylnchris - the devils in the details. I just read that if the average user actually read all of privacy policies they agree to alone they would spend 1 month out of the year reading privacy policies.

Glad you got it fixed. Better off without IMH anyway.

Had a slowness issue that involved an interesting resolution.
Xenon based server that AC DB is on.
Win7 Pro terminal server for 4 XP machines and 3 Incomputing thin client boxes for running the AC exe.
My personal workstation is an XPPro.
Both Native and in RDP sessions AC was slowing way down, slow to open, slow to save, really slow to send orders.
Cleaned out old messages,
Rebooted the Win7 "server".
No joy.
Getting ready to run Tuner, then start down the list of some of the above posts.

Rebooted my XP machine for windows updates (about 1 week from last reboot), and voila! every thing everywhere started running fast again, without any futher reboots, etc.

So, it seemed that my w/s while connected to server was causing the slowdown, and once I rebooted all was good.

Anyone think then have seen something like this?