Home Forums Discussions General Discussion I'm happy it is not a subscription service!

Roy,
I almost posted one of my round about, less than to the point Paul postings on the topics you just hit here... Man I just love how "nail on the head" you are most of the time... Thanks.

Folks, I ask you all if you knew for sure that such termination terms were at least once that we all know of for sure, were actually brought out, and threatened to be used, held over the head of a real AC using provider and their practice, would you still feel so gosh darn comfortable having such language in your EULA contract??? Would you all still be so quick to just make this all go away? What gives here folks? Can someone please explain this one part of it to us? This is not merely an academic exersice here, this is honest concern over the reality of the situation...

We and Roy are not just raising the roof here because we like to make trouble, it took a long time for either practice to move forward with bringing up these upsetting and troubling issues in this public forum. Both practices were concerned that such terms could and would be used against them for speaking up... How many of you remember the threads way back when about free and or offensive speech on the user board that became an off shoot of all of this. How many of you know that your use of speech here, is defined in the this contract as well?

I would love to see AC take the lead on these thorny issues, let's all teach these CCHIT sob's and enterprise sized EMR and other large software vendors a lesson in proper medical ethics. That when medical records are on paper only it is very clear to all comers that the intellectual property rights to those records are the "joint" intellectual property of both the provider who charted the encounter and provided the care, as well as the property of the patient whose chart it is. This is not a subject for debate, it is accepted FACT, plain and simple. Can you say HIPAA??? And furthermore there are many other entities that have a vested and possibly an legal interest in said charts. The governemnt, any insurance carriers that are involved in any claim from that patient, and perhaps the courts and lawyers that may be involved in any legal action that may be launched against the provider of the care. Again this is plain accepted fact, that no one would dispute.....

So tell me if one vendor's intellectual property rights can suddenly come on in the middle of all this and displace or trump any and all of these parties access to the records and charts why would any of us in our right mind, no matter what the potential benefits of any program might be, sign up for such displacement and replacement of intellectual propery rights? So if you write your charts in freehand on good old pen and paper the state of property rights to the record is how is has been and for the most part should be (I don't like the gov't or the carriers sticking their noses in here too much, but let's not go there right now), but the moment one chooses to go "E", with an EMR all that gets thrown out the window??? Come on, do you think I was born yesterday? Were all of you? For goodness sake folks, please wake up and start making some coffee here.

And guess what, even though this private corporation, the software vendor will attempt or possibly succeed in keeping you, your patient, the carriers and the lawyers all from accessing the important information in the chart, guess who is going to pay the price for that lack of availability??? That's right, all of you the providers. It is your responsiblity to protect and produce those records as and when needed or required, plain and simple. The vendor may or may not get hit a little bit, but it is all of you providers of care that will pay the price for the vendors over zelous control of property rights. Fines, legal hastle, possible jail time, all because you chose to do what should have been the right thing and move forward with the new promoted, and almost required technology... BULLCCHIT thank you very much.

Albert Einstein once said he was sure our technology had exceeded our humanity in controling and properly using our technology, in reference to the "A Bomb". Are we here in the field on medicine still that far behind our technology in terms of our humanity??? It is clear that our laws on these matters are far behind and so it comes down to private parties like ourselves to hack it out with our vendors. A long time ago Nancy and I really trusted AC, it is one of the main reasons we really wanted AC to create a PM of their own. After seeing how most of these other software vendors act and treat folks like us, we would have rather stayed with AC. But with such terms and conditions as Roy has so properly well laid out here, combined with indisputable rights of intellectual property that I have spoken of, then add to that, that we know for sure, that the negative terms were applied at least once if not more, We would prefer to put our faith in a properly constructed legal document that properly and fairly, fairly to all parties, including the poor patient who doesn't even have the ability to be in on the choices we make for his or her own property rights, defines and defends all interested parties... And in light of all this indisputable evidence, is that really asking so much??? We think not.

I still would like to know why this bother so many of you folks to the point of attempting to make it go away without really addressing the issues at hand? What gives here, I for one just don't get it???

Actually I sort of do, some of you who have studied actually Psychology and not just psychiatry, might know the term "Cognitive Dissidence" which speaks to the inner termoil and the inablity to hold two diametrically opposed points of view. The idea of AC being this wonderful product and more importantly a wonderful company with high ethics. This happens to people after they have made a large investment in something be time and energy or money, when such a thing is opposed by such a differing perspective and realities, a total shift in paradym (sorry I know its over used, but it works here) it is truely hard to hold both ideas and belief systems inside one person and so something has to give. Or in many cases in terms of it happening in a social setting or network, the system looks to restore order, just as the individual might, and so they will go to great lengths to restore balance in light of such unsetting conflict... Is that what is happening here on this board in terms of these issues here and now??? Can any of you control your inner conflict so as to allow yourselves to process this and act independent of your gut need to restore balance and hear this out and actually process the facts here? I'm whipped, I've gotta go get some rest here... Have a good night one and all....
Paul and Nancy