Home Forums Discussions General Discussion Changing from Wireless to Wired, and ipv4 Adresses

Hello,

I have a wireless n network for AC which started with 4 computers including the "main computer", and is now up to 6. AC tech support recommended that I at least use a wired connection between the main computer (Dell Windows 7 - 64 with i7 chip, at least 8 GB of RAM, two 1T hard drives) to speed things up. All computers have static IPv4 addresses. Most if not all of the local computers have had to find the main computer by it's IPv4 address 192.168.0.2 rather than it's name OFFICEMASTER

So, I fished a 100' Cat5e ethernet cable through the walls and ceiling between the main computer and the Actiontec 784 wireless modem/router. I was told by the folks at Actiontec that the wired connection would "automatically" take over and supersede the wireless connection, but that hasn't happened, I'm guessing because the default for the wired card is DHCP and it comes up as 192.168.0.3. So the other computers looking for 192.168.0.2 are still using the older, slower, wireless connection.

I tried reassigning the wired card IPV4 address also to 192.168.0.2 (same as wireless), but then got a message basically saying that you cannot have 2 different cards using the same IP address.

So, the question is how can I make use of the faster wired connection? All local computers need to look for the main computer as 192.168.0.2. My thought was to deactivate the wireless card, change the wired card from 192.168.0.3, to 192.168.0.2 and take all of the other settings on the IPV4 screen for the wireless card (DNS server, etc.)and transfer them to the wired card IPV4 screen.

Or is there a better way?

Norm Numerof
NormNumerofMD@aol.com

Your thought of deactivating the wireless connection and transferring settings to the wired connection on the server is correct. You cannot have two different connections to the same network. That's considered a bad practice with the situation you're in.

JamesNT

I am very confused by your question and your topology of your network. As James said, you are trying to run two different networks at the same time. The fact that you must use an IP address rather than the name confirms this. And, you may as well just stay with IP rather than specifying v4 each time.

Yes, connecting the main computer via wire will make things faster. But, here is basically best practices and I would take the Christmas holidays off to do it correctly.

I am not bragging, but Time-Warner supplies my modem, my Cisco router costs over $400 and my switch is $900. Not saying you have to spend this much money, but you are a) trying to do wireless -- which is problematic from the get go, b) using a $70 router. This isn't going to give you a lot of speed or security. I am not sure on the specs, but you may get 300Mbs on wireless IF the router can do that and IF all of your wireless cards can do that. Static IPs can work, but are not the best way to go. The best way is to have a DHCP on a server, but you don't have a server.

So, here is how to do it so you have the best speed and reliability and security. Have your ISP supply the modem. Purchase a decent Netgear or Linksys or Cisco (if you can afford it) with a DHCP server. Buy a decent WIRED switch with PoE in case you decide to use VoIP down the road. It should be a managed switch, if possible, and definitely capable of 1Gb speeds. Now, you will get right at Gb speeds constantly and not UP TO 300Mbs with wireless.

Now, make sure EVERY computer has a 1Gb network card or a 1Gb connection on the motherboard. You can keep the wireless adapters, because your new router will not have wireless. Now run Cat6 Ethernet cable through the walls and ceilings to your switch. Now, your whole network is wired. Now you can use the wired portion of your current router, but it needs to be 1Gb. Make sure all of your network adapters are either set to 1Gb Full or Autonegotiate, which is better. Make sure your DHCP server on your router is on. IF you ever change to a domain with a DHCP server, be sure to use that DHCP server and turn off the router's.

Your default gateway doesn't have to be, but usually is 192.168.0.1 if you have chosen 0 to be your subnet. Set the "main" computer to a static IP address of 192.168.0.2. None of your other clients should have static IP addresses (they can, it's just not best practice). Your DHCP server from your router will hand them out their IPs, subnet masks, default gateways and DNS instantly, and you will know that they will all always be correct.

Now, open AC on a client. It will ask for the path. Browse to the IP or the address and select the .xml file. Your network will now be completely reliable. It will be fast and secure. And, you will not have a wireless connection and wired.

Can you just do wired from the "main computer" to the router? Yes? Would I ever recommend it if I were support? No.

This is what you do for a living. There are HIPAA regulations, which are getting more stringent all the time. You don't want to come in daily wondering if a certain computer is going to connect. Or how fast your system will run. And, with wireless, you will have glitches where you will lose connection every so often.

Go to your local technical or community college or university and find the computer science course. Ask the professor if he or she knows of three students who would like to make some easy money and pizza. Buy a huge roll of Cat6 cable and spend a day running cable at $12.00 an hour each. For every drop run two cables. You will need it soon. Maybe even three.

Every printer you purchase that will be used centrally or has special features such as color, get networked. You want to connect those WIRED.

Trust me, you will be much happier.

ISP --> Modem --> Good router --> Good switch --> Main computer and clients connected wirelessly --> Printers

Dear Norm,

You have the right idea.

Your local-network used 192.168.0.2 for OFFICEMASTER over wireless.

To connect OFFICEMASTER by the faster and more reliable wire:

1) Disable OFFICEMASTER's wireless-connection:

a) Use Windows device-manager, which is easiest
b) Or use the BIOS if it's a built-in NIC
c) Or remove it physically if it's an add-in wireless-card

2) In Windows, set up OFFICEMASTER's wired-device with three addresses:

a) 192.168.0.2 for its own address (its old wireless address)
b) 192.168.0.1 for its gateway (the ActionTec)
c) 192.168.0.1 for its DNS provider (the ActionTec)

Presumably the ActionTec is set to leave 192.168.0.2 outside the DHCP pool.

You may have to restart everything before it works--modem, server, and other computers.

Merry Christmas,

Carl Fogel

Norm,

I do agree with Carl. I also think you are not quite understanding how the networking here works. As you have seen, you can't have two of the same IPs on the same network, but you also can't have the same computer on the same subnet running with two IPs. The computer's card is either set to DHCP or not. You can change that. Just go in, as you say, and make it anything. It doesn't have to be x.2 or x.3. It isn't stuck in its memory. You could make it 0.100 if you wanted. Then you would have a main computer with a name and an IP address.

The clients aren't going to just "find" that computer. I think that is where you are going wrong. It isn't as though if you set the IP address wrong, they won't find it. You browse or use UNC to find the computer yourself. Since the folder will be shared, you will be able to open each AC on each client, and it will not "find" the new computer. You will then browse to it. If you go to the AC folder on the main computer and look for AmazingCharts.xml, then change it to .txt, you will see the port number and the path for AC. It will default to the name, but you could insert the IP.

A lot of computers will default to the hard wired over the wireless. But, I would disable it in device manager or in the network settings.

Remember, though, this change will not likely increase your speeds a lot. You are still going to run mostly at the network card speeds of the other computers or wireless speed, etc. You will have five computers vying for one network cards' bandwidth. And, given the computer is not a server, it won't be optimized for databases.

I think you will find you will have issues all the time until you bite the bullet and invest some money in a more enterprise setup. All wired. Higher end cards. Better router and switch, etc.

Good luck.

Don't feel bad, Norm. I don't understand how it works, either. What I do know is how to pull-up Indy, James, Sandeep, or Bert from my phone contact list.

While the first part of this sentence is correct - you shouldn't have two of the same IPs on a network - the second part is not. If the computer has two (or more) network cards it can have two IP addresses. The IP address is for the card. The server in our office has two wired cards, and each have unique IP addresses. All modern laptops have a LAN port and a wireless card, and both can be used at the same time, as long as each has a unique IP address.

I am writing a new post. If you put a gun to my head and said, "Can you have two IPs on the same computer on the same subnet, I would say, technically, yes. But, I would tell most people with limited knowledge of networking no. It would just be easier than going into the reasons of why it shouldn't be done. There is simply no advantage to it unless they are teamed and you have the proper DNS settings and routing entries, but it just isn't worth it, and you have to be at a Sandeep level to insure it will work properly.

Back in 2003, when using Routing and Remote Access on different subnets, using two NICs with different IPs was not uncommon and your server was then the gateway using NAT. Microsoft has gone away from that and best practices is generally to use one card. And, I am not sure if you can get teaming NICs and drivers for a PC. Only servers.

Enabling two NICs on the same device on the same network will almost always cause confusion. The only reason is for more throughput. On some server OS and non-SBS servers, it is done, but always on the WAN side and never on the LAN side.

@NeuroDawg Nothing I have stated has anything to do with the physical setup. Of course, you have to have two cards to have two IPs. I am not sure what the advantage you are getting for your two wired cards on your server. Unless you are not using a router or want the server to be a gateway. None-the-less, there is no reason to use two different NICs and IPs on PC (non-servers).

It is true that all laptops have two ports. But, this is only so you can use it wired or wireless. The intention is not for one to use both the wired and wireless at the same time. There is no advantage to that, and there is the chance that DNS settings and the like will be screwed up. Laptops are used wirelessly a lot for obvious reasons and many people will leave the wireless on, so it picks up wireless networks at work and home and various other businesses that offer guest wireless. But, why would anyone take a laptop to the office, plug in an Ethernet cord because wired is the only option or because they get better speeds, but still leave on the wireless.

No matter how you do it or what each opinion is, for Norm, the best option IMHO is to disable the wireless card in the network and sharing center under adapter settings. And, while a fully wired network would have a huge advantage is an office with 50 computers and may not give a huge speed increase, it still will.

I think AC support is doing him a disservice by recommending the wired to the router on only the computer with the database. Sure, if Norm states he isn't going full wireless, then it is better than nothing. He will still have a less efficient system if he has wireless and who knows what speeds on the cards.

There are things Microsoft could tell you to do to improve performance but if it is not THE way, they won't support it. Here, the best way to fix his issues are:

1. Disable the wireless on the "main computer"
2. Set a static IP on the "main computer"
3. Use dynamic IPs on the other clients
4. Set the router to assign IPs, gateways, DNS, etc.
5. Wire all the computers directly to the router
6. If possible, upgrade the router.
7. Add a switch depending on the number of ports on the Actiontek.

I do not think that the wired connection will turn off the wired.

If all computers are static, then there would be no advantage to having DHCP enabled on the router.

Bert,

I agree with what you have said. I can think of a big advantage to using both the wireless and wired ports on my laptop, but it wouldn't apply to using AC.

Thanks for the reply.

Thanks for all of your replies regarding my issue of trying to convert from a wireless to a wired network. I sincerely appreciate the time that you have taken to do that. I think that I've finally solved the problem a couple of hours ago.

For the last month, as time and illness allowed, I've spent many hours on my own and have spoken to a few IT people with no success to solve the problem as to why the main computer would not recognize the wired connection to the Actiontec 784 DSL modem/router. What appeared in the Windows Network Center was something like "unidentified public network", not the name of my network. I had disabled the wireless card and transferred its settings to the wired card. I had 2 different IP addresses for the wireless and wired cards. The wired LAN card would not recognize the name of my network.

It finally occurred to me to "uninstall" and reinstall the wired card electronically. That has done the trick. Over the next couple of days we will see if the speed is improved adequately. I suspect that it may not be. The main computer's wired connection speed to the Actiontec is 100Mbps, my i7 laptop runs wirelessly at 144, and the other clients run wirelessly between 62 and the 90s. I suspect that those drop considerably when a few of us are accessing the database at one time.

All of the desktop computers have one gigabyte ethernet cards, and I am thinking of connecting them all together to a Netgear JGS516PE unmanaged 16 port switch with cat6 plenum rated cable and cat6 connectors, using a Klein Tools VDV 226-107 RJ 45 stripper . I would probably leave the printers wireless.

Thanks again!

Norm

Hi Norm,

Thanks for getting back to us. It is always interesting to see if a problem gets resolved and what the issue is. Just a couple of questions.

The person I use for IT who has done it full time for more than 35 years, is always amazed at the number of doctors who do their own IT. (I must admit he states this, because I am one of those doctors). Do you think that it would have been more efficient if you had hired a computer and network specialist to come in and set it up for you? It would likely have been fixed in hours? It is fun, in a way, to DIY, but ultimately it ends up causing more frustration abd time than it is worth.

Why do all the desktops have gbit cards while the "main computer" is set up at 100 Mbs?

It is impressive that you are using plenum cables? If you are ever inspected and the cables are running through ceilings that could be flammable, you will be all set. But, they are very pricey.

Thanks again.

Hi Bert,

Have you been talking to my wife? She too wondered if it wouldn't pay to bring someone else in! One of my retired patients had 200 IT guys working for him at the Federal Reserve Board and was great when I ran into a problem, but he moved to NC last year. I have another fellow I can call, but he's in China for 3 months. I've had other "experts" work on a computer for hours without results, hence my trying to "Get by with a little help from my friends"; that would be you folks. I just knew there had to be a simple solution, and fortunately I finally figured it out. I've always enjoyed challenges such as the pheo I diagnosed last week, road rallies, and alpine climbing, but I must confess that this computer mystery was almost going from the sublime to the ridiculous.

The desktops all have 1Gbs cards, including the main computer. It is the Actiontec 784 wireless DSL modem that is 100Mps.

As far as the plenum cable is concerned, I come from a family of electricians, spent a couple of years in the IBEW between college and med school, and I always insisted on doing things the right way, according to code.

Thanks again for your help. Look me up if you ever get to Vail.

Norm

Well, I can't feel too sorry for you if you live in Vail. Did a lot of skiing in Steamboat and Breckenridge. Always laughed when the locals on the chairlift would complain about the ice when ski hit a piece of ice the size of a dime when I am back in Vermont skiing at Stowe and Sugarbush, where you would at times, ski ON ice.

Well, once you get your Gbit switch, it should take the router's speed out of the equation.

One thing you may want to consider in the future (I don't think I have ever talked anyone into it in 11 years) is Experts-Exchange. For the monthly subscription, the amount of incredibly good Expert help usually at the MVP level for whatever category or categories you are in. The nice thing about EE is generally if the problem is interesting and your feedback is timely, one or two experts will hang around until the problem is fixed. I have over 600 questions answered. My guess is around 450 solved the issue.