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As of this post, Windows XP has 517 days of support from Microsoft remaining.

JamesNT

A nice gadget to go with it:
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=11662

And the significance of this is what exactly??????

Seriously, I assume this means that we should be totally off XP by March 2014? What would happen if we continued to run some XP PCs? No updates etc.?

Thanks. Gene

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/products/lifecycle

Basically yes. You wouldn't see anymore Windows Updates and Microsoft's support line will no longer accept requests for XP support.

So the PC will not actually explode in flames at midnight of the last day of support?????

Gene

Allow me to put this in perspective for our good doctor. The following is a conversation I had with a client a few years ago. I am not making this up. And yes, this thread is giving me severe deja vue.

Me: Hey. Just thought I would let you know that support for Windows 2000 will be ending in about 180 days. I recommend you upgrade those machines while we can do so under our own control with proper planning and budgeting.

Client: Why? What does that mean?

Me: It means that Microsoft will no longer release updates for that operating system and they will not longer offer phone support. Also, many of the third party support entities will be ending support as well.

Client: OK, but doest that mean the machines will stop working on that day?

Me: Well, no.

Client: Fine. Thanks for the heads up.

218 days later

Client: James, my server quit working. Come fix it.

Me: I can extract your data from the server and here is a quote from Dell for a new server running the latest version of Windows.

Client: Wait, what?!? Why the hell can't you just fix the one I have?!?

Me. Your server is almost 8 years old. Windows 2000 is no longer supported.

Client: Well how long will it take to get a new one?

Me: About two weeks from Dell.

Client: I can't be down for two flippin' weeks!! Go to Best Buy and get something from there.

Me: OK.

I arrive back from Best Buy with a $600 desktop computer (a.k.a. cheap pos) and set it up.

Client: Now, see, this is how business is done! I kept that other computer for 8 years and got full use out of it before I had to buy a new one and the new one only cost me $600! Talk about saving money. I hope you learned something today, IT guy!

Me: Ok, if you say so.

114 days later, the new computer fails.

Client: James, this new computer you got me quit. Why did you get me such a worthless piece of crap? Come over here and fix it!

Me: It's going to cost about $400 to fix this machine. And Best Buy doesn't carry these parts in-store. We'll have to send the machine off via Fed-Ex to a place to get it fixed with a turn-around time of 1 - 2 weeks.

Client: $400?!?! Send it off for 1 - 2 weeks?!?!? Why can't you get it fixed under warranty?!?!

Me: The computer came with a 90 day limited warrany.

Client: What the hell does "limited" mean?

Me: I think we are seeing it.

Client: They need to get it fixed faster than 1 - 2 weeks!

Me: The warranty terms are quite clear. On the other hand, we could get that server I mentioned before. . .

Client: What kind of warranty does it have?

Me: Three year on-site parts and labor next day.

Client: Now that's a warranty! How long to get it?

Me: About 1 - 2 weeks.

Client: Fu#$%%^^go$$%%^^^da###$$%^^&& computers!!!

JamesNT

Hi James,

Thanks for that, it brightened up the day!!

The real reason I was asking- we have a few lightly used desktops, and a few backup laptops. All of our regularly used PCs and laptops will be Win7 by that time, but we will still have a few XP Pro machines in (potential) use.

So I will keep a fire extinguisher handy, in case of spontaneous combustion!

Gene

No, THANK YOU! I was waiting for Bert to send me the obligatory PM about how offensive I was being and that I should delete my post and make a new one with in-depth apology. I think you just saved me from that.

JamesNT

Hi James,

Obviously, physicians can be jerks, just like there are jerks in every other area of life. As I was reading your anecdote above, I was actually thinking that one could substitute "chest pain" or "rectal bleeding" and have a similar scenario play out.

I think, largely, that users of this forum do not display stupidity. Some, like you, and Sandeep, and Bert, take the Mercedes approach. Obviously that is ideal, with absolute top-of-the-line equipment and operating systems. Everything that can be redundant is redundant, and many levels of backups are done.

Others, including myself, (JBS comes to mind as well) take a Chevy approach. For me, money is quite tight, and I will save a dollar where I can. Our peer to peer system, with a decent Dell i7, Windows 7 Pro 64 bit main computer, a mix of Windows 7 and XP desktops, decent i5 Win7 HP laptops for providers, and older Dell XP laptop for MA, has been working well. I can troubleshoot most things that occur, and my disaster plan, should the main computer fail, is to restore from backup onto another fast desktop and use that as temporary main computer.

In the context of all of this, I don't have a great concern about having a few noncritical computers still using XP after support ends.

To have critical computers running XP after that date? That sounds like stupidity.

Gene

Why $400 to fix a $600 computer? Multiple component failure? Most of the time those off the shelf computers tend to have weak power supplies.

One thing you can do to hedge your bets is pull an image of those XP machines so that you can do a bare-metal restore if fire breaks out.

Another approach is to swap those machines to CENTOS and convert the XP to a VM on that hardware. In the enterprise space that is the step-wise progression where there are apps/systems that can't move from XP yet. Re-spinning an XP machine from the latest good image only takes a few minutes.

Sandeep,

I don't remember exact numbers as much as I do the harsh conversation.

Indy,

Good idea, but not cost effective. And not sustainable over the long run.

JamesNT

DocGene,

I'm not a big money spender when it comes to IT, either, and I do my best to work with practices that are cash strapped - contrary to popular opinion of some on this forum.

However, there is a middle ground. And you are quite right, there are those that are just plain hard to get along with.

JamesNT

Whaaa? I still have my W2K install media. Of course, I have NT server media in storage (a box full of 3.5 floppies). Sustainable is a taste thing - kind of like blended versus single malt.

I learn a lot from reading these conversations.

Well, Amazing Charts 6 stopped working with Windows 2000. Dangnabit, I actually had one of those as a backup machine (had an old immunization program that we occasionally queried) and also in a pinch as a remote desktop.

That was quite a few years after 2K stopped being supported. Shame on AC for not continuing to make sure it was compatible! I converted it to a VM, updated it to XP and the immunization program stopped working. We now run the VM when we need to query the program.

I've only had that machine for 10 years, IT SHOULD STILL BE GOOD. Shame on Dell and Microsoft for planned obsolescence. My Pentium II 400 was every bit as fast as a Pentium 4 2.8 with Windows XP. Oh well, guess I really needed to use the Meaningful use money.

Ha! Ha! Wendell! I needed that laugh!

JamesNT

James-

Are you sure he was kidding????????????

After some of your stories about your clients, this may be serious!!!!!!

Gene

The first paragraph is completely factual. The names were not changed to protect the innocent.

The second paragraph is mostly factual, although I was disappointed when Win2K no longer worked. I do not blame AC.

The third paragraph has elements of factuality. Win2K is faster than XP than Vista than Win7or8. It's smaller and lighter but not as complete. It runs reasonably fast on a 400 Meg processor. I have indeed had that machine for 10 years. It was originally my AC "server" at one point. I did get meaningful use money. The sky is blue and so is the AC logo. The rest may have elements of hyperbole. But then again....

The fact that Wendell is even serious at all makes this even funnier. But to respond to Wendell's statements. . .

Windows 2000 is, from one standpoint, even faster than Windows XP or Vista, or Win7. Why? Because it has less to do.

* Win2k does not have rounded corners on its windows. All edges are 90 degrees. It also supports fewer colors for painting windows. Rounded corners and more color depth are require more processor and RAM.

* Win2k did not come with a built-in firewall. It did not come with Windows defender. Two more services you didnt' have to run.

* Win2k did not come with transparent windows. The transparency in Vista/Win7 most certain requires more CPU and RAM.

* Win2k did not come with User Account Control and various other security features. User Account Control requires a good deal of power to run and execute.

* Win2k supports less than half of the group policy settings found in Win7. That means fewer user settings to process and startup/logon.

I could go on here, but we should be getting the point by now. Windows 2000 appeared faster because it simply has less to do and less to support. We expect our computers to do more. We expect better graphics, more security, and better audio. We expect a more comfortable work environment. Sure, there are those they say things like "Windows 2000's desktop is good enough."

Two words: blah blah.

I could never go back to Windows 2000's desktop. I like my transparent windows. I like my color. I like my audio. If I'm going to be stuck behind a keyboard all damn day cranking out SQL, C#, etc., then I wanna be comfy.

In some respects, Windows 2000 is slower.

* There is no 64-bit version of Windows 2000.

* Windows 2000, even Datacenter Edition, can't address as many CPU's as Windows 2012 can.

* Windows 2000's memory management pales in comparison to Windows 2008's memory management.

Even our every day applications get slower because we expect more. Amazing Charts is probably thousands of lines of code longer now than it was back in version 5.x as opposed to today with version 6.3.3. And thousands more are being added with version 7. Indeed, I would say the 837 generator alone is at least 2000-3000 lines of code by itself. That doesn't count the 835 parser for auto-payment posting.

Our programs get bigger because we want more. Whenever someone looks at me and says, "See that there 1992 car? They don't make them like that no more, son!!"

I tell that someone they are right. We don't make cars so blatantly unsafe. Today's cars have front and side air-bags. Collapsable frames to cushion the impact so your body won't have to. And get way better gas mileage and have better warranties. My wife's new Hyundai is rated at 7,000 miles between oil changes. I wouldn't dare go more than 3,500 between oil changes on the comparable 1992 model.

Ahh for the good old days. They might have been good, but now they are old.

JamesNT

Oh I could not go back to Win2K.

It was fine as a backup computer, it's primary purpose was for the immunization program, which could not be moved forward and is no longer supported. Still, it worked, sorry to see it go.

There were many more changes "under the hood" than just what James stated,

Win2K was the base of the future OS's, but then VW Bug was the base for the Porsche 911. We always want more. We just don't want to pay for the improvements .

But I agree with Wendell too here (I know old thread was searching for something and came across this one)... I LOVE my old reliable 1998 5.2 Magnum first gen Grand Cherokee, that old Mopar, Cast Iron, wakes up every morning, never dies kind of design and longevity. It really is a shame that for the majority of day to day modest users, something as simple as solid old XP Pro would probably work for them for at least another 10 years past today. Emails, basic crunching programs, U-Tube Videos and burning discs and making MP3's for taking your stuff with you.

You work intimately in this industry with this hardware and software almost everyday of your life and it is your life to a large extent. I'm sure if I worked in a Porsche dealer 5-6 days a week driving and repairing high performance cars that have pin you to your seat excelleration it would be pretty disappointing, perhaps even depressing or maddening to have to get back in some underpowered, old OBD1 analog smog car with a carb from the worst of the 70's to drive home and all around town in.

But just as most people don't want my small block 5.2 magnum or the additional gas that goes with it, or the price tag and additional expenses for higher quality sports car parts that come with the Porsche, no less a two seater means having yet another decent car for daily family or friends runs, shopping and the like... Instead most folks simply want a decent car with some OK creature comforts like heat, AC, seat that doesn't destroy you back or buns if possible and affordable, are willing to sacrific at least some amount of seat of the pants or top speed ponies to save on purchase price and or gas consumption and don't really need or want all the bells and whistles for the regular daily slow commuting stuff.

Our entire office is still XP Pro & Tablet and with decent upticks in the network it is still pretty darn good for the most part and speed has picked up for the most part. I may have to reload the main machine soon as it is actually starting to get a bit slow and I can not get it to print directly to PaperPort anymore for some won't give itself up reason regardless of how many reloads of the program and or print driver I have done.

I guess all good things must one day reach their end, aah?

But don't tell me that there are few finer things than driving late at night on a very low traffic or deserted road, about 50 degrees windows rolled down, your nice older collector or true classic car purrring like a kitten with just a bit of a good Roar one tap of the go pedal away, clear dry air and sky, and just keep driving and cold air keeping you awake as long as you want to keep drivin' and cruisin'... Man I love my old Dart.... Yes a real 1972 small block 318 V-8 all too 70's light metallic green, four door sleeper sedan "Dodge Dart" with PDB, PS, A/C (of course!!!) and Ralley Suspension for Torsion Bar curve hugging fun and control confidence... Why should that car be made to ever be obsolete? What a simple tastful pleasure that is.

New Commercials still catch me off guard hearing the name come at me out of the blue towards the end.. "Dodge Dart" too weird.

My mom had a 72 dark green Dodge Dart (straight six). Ran like a tank, wonderful car until someone ran a stop sign and smashed another car into it.

It's pretty nice to cruize on a cool summer night, but I'll be in my 93 Nissan 300ZX, with the T tops off. (For those of you who don't know what a T top is, google it )