Home Forums Poor mans RAID

Hi all, this may be fairly basic for the gurus, but not for me....

AC6 is running on a Dell Optiplex 790 Win7Pro 64 bit machine. Doing fairly basic AC backup, to external hard drive, to another PC, and AC offsite.

My question:

If I install another hard drive, can I back up the ENTIRE C drive to this? The idea, of course, would be that if the C drive failed, it could be removed and the new drive take over, current to the point of the last backup.

I know the best answer is to get a real server and real RAID, but we have spent a few bucks already on hardware upgrades for AC6 to run, and have to do more upgrading for laptops and desktops. So a server is on the long term wish list, not the immediate future.

****PS Congrats to all the Ravens fans out there!!! (I'm guessing Jon JBS is in this category)*****

Thanks. Gene

Gene,

If you install another hard drive into the main AC computer, yes indeed you can backup to that drive. However, you will never be able to take this backup offsite as the drive will be inside the computer. Further, since the backup (assuming Windows backup and many others out there) will back up the contents of the C drive into a VHD file (or other image format) you cannot simply swap drives and be on your way. You will need to either:

1. Buy a new drive and restore.
2. Mount the VHD file in a new copy of Windows and run it as a virtual machine. You still have to buy a new drive.

If what you want is to just protect yourself from hard drive failure, Windows 7 does now support RAID 1. You can install a second drive and go to disk management in Windows 7 and tell it to set up a RAID 1 on the other drive.

JamesNT

James,

WOW! I will certainly continue the other backups, but to have RAID built in is great. Up til now Win7 has been basically an expense and a nusiance, this is the first positive I am seeing.

Can I/should I consider solid state hard drives? For one or both drives? If main drive is SSHD and RAID drive is conventional, will that negate the speed improvement from SSHD?

Thanks again. Gene

Gene,


No. Cost not justified.


For a RAID 1, it is best practice for both drives to be identical, right down to the make and model. It is OK for one drive to be bigger than the other if they are the same speed and same type, but you will end up with some free space on the bigger drive as that free space cannot be part of the RAID 1 array.

If you mix/match drives, performance will be affected by the slower drive.

JamesNT

I recommend giving Windows 7 a second look. I have found many of its new features to be most useful.

For example, did you know you can block unauthorized USB devices using Windows 7 group policy?

JamesNT

Hi James, thanks for the info.

Let me put it this way- I am not doubting that Win7 has lots of good stuff. But 1 month into it, I have been forced to deal with the differences, and have not yet seen the improvements.

I am sure the advantages will show themselves slowly.

Thanks again. Gene

If I may ask, what are the differences that have caused you pain?

JamesNT

Hi James, you are going to think I am really wimpy....

All of this unfolded while the EXTREMELY slow rxing problem of AC v6 was occurring. Everything I had used, and was used to, was XPPro.

I had purchased the Optiplex 790 in anticipation of the upgrade. Setting this up was fairly easy, AC6 seemed good, so I switched everything over on a weekend.

Monday morning we were almost nonfunctional due to the slow rxing. ACs initial response was that this was a known bug with XP. So we got 1 new laptop with 7 pro 64 bit.

Somewhat frustrating to get this networking. Win7 did not recongize the former network.

Printer drivers(Canon multifunction printers) for 64 bit were a problem as well, took a while to get them straightened out.

Interface with local hospital MediTech was problematic as well, we could view the immediate results but could not find older items. This issue was solved by "Compatability view".

Even now the automated backup for AC gives "Failed" nessage, cannot find network computer for backup. But when I do it manually, no problems finding it.

None of the above would be much of a problem for you. In the context of patients waiting and frustration with AC over the rxing, they were most annoying.

Most of this, I suppose, is related to time. If I had time to relax and explore 7, and had known of the problems in advance, things would have been much easier. I guess being blindsided by all this, essentially expecting an easy upgrade (as all the past AC upgrades had been since v2!) and having a disatserous week, tend to jade my outlook somewhat.

Sorry for the rant. Gene

Gene, we had this issue, too, and here is how we resolved it. Maybe this will take one small issue off of your plate (this was not a Win 7 issue, but was an AC change).
That was gracious of you. Yes, I am in that category, though you won't see a change in the bird species of my avatar. No matter how bad the O's get.

One more complaint with Win7- to me, the Control Panel is much less intuitive, and it is harder to find things on it. It looks like there is actually less ability to perform useful tasks. Anyone else notice this?

Thanks. Gene

I agree. I find that it helps a little to change the view in control panel to "small icons" to get rid of the categories. There are a lot of icons, but it seems a little easier to find what I am looking for.

Hi James,

Could you please provide a little more info on setting up a second hard drive as RAID drive? I have searched for RAID and find little, under "Disk Management" I'm guessing the new drive will be set up as a dynamic volume? Any info or links that would give more info would be most appreciated! Thanks.

Hi Jon,

Thanks for the link about backup, I thought I did that, but I will try again.

Gene

Hi Gene,

First, as far as some of the WIN 7 issues. If you are not finding the network, it is not WIN 7's fault. It is better at networking than XP. You likely just need to set your Home vs Public vs Private settings and make sure shared files is enabled.

As to Control Panel, one of the first things I do on a new OS, is customize the Start Menu. Right click on the task bar, select properties, select Start Menu tab, then go through every thing and set it the way I want it. For instance, Network and Run command are not there by default, Admin Tools are only listed once and Control Panel is a link to a window with multiple groupings. It is asking a lot to know what icon is in what group. So, that one I always change to menu, so when I hover over it, the whole menu pops up in alphabetic order.

As to RAID, you can't just add a hard drive and make a RAID1 or RAID0. Or put in three total and make a RAID5. A RAID allows the drives to work together in some fashion such as a mirror or parity. For this to occur, you must have a RAID controller. This can either be a software controller or hardware controller, which most consider the better choice. You would also need a larger drive than the one you have if you are going to mirror to it.

Hi Bert,

I thought there would be more to setting up a mirrored hard drive, but James' post #35052 above seems to indicate otherwise. If I read that properly, it sounds like Win7 can serve as a software controller. Yes? No?

Thanks. Gene

Gene,

Regarding your Windows 7 upgrade, believe me when I tell you that I have had my fair share of soured upgrades in the past. How do you think I got to be as good as I am at this stuff. Perhaps one day I'll post about a Windows 2000 to 2003 upgrade I did....

Bert and Gene,

Please see these links regarding setting up RAID 1 in Windows 7.

http://kmwoley.com/blog/?p=429

http://www.overclockers.com/setting-up-os-raid-with-windows-7-ultimate/

JamesNT

I agree with James. I was just stating that you can use software RAID. WIN 7 will give you that, but your OS will take a hit on performance.

When I said larger drive than what you have, I just meant larger than the Drive 0 you have. Then, of course, Drive 1 has to be unallocated, and all partitions should be mirrored separately.

Sorry for the confusion.

Bert is quite correct, you will take a hit on performance. However, I have found that hit to be of no consequence.

I once ran a Win2003 Terminal Server that supported 60 users that used Windows 2003's RAID 1.

JamesNT

You definitely do not want to mix an SSD with a plain SATA hard drive in a RAID. Personally, while James disagrees, I would go with an SSD and not the RAID.

Bert and I do not disagree as much as he thinks we do on this topic. Let's just say that for desktop use, SSD drives are a bit more pricey than what I would ask a client to pay, but if the client wants them I'll certainly oblige.

JamesNT

Decided to check, since many motherboards support RAID, the 790 does not although the 990 does.

Didn't know Win 7 Raid capabilities, sounds like a great solution.

I would think the performance hit would be minimal if it is not being used as a desktop.