Home Forums Discussions General Discussion Amazing Charts Pricing

Amazing Charts price is going up. The new pricing model will effect practices with more than 1 provider and will go into effect July 1, 2009.

• New Licensing Price: $995 for each provider. (Currently it $995 for the first provider plus $200 each additional provider.)

• New Guardian Angel Support/Maintenance: $500/year for each provider.(Currently our price is $500 for the first provider plus $100 each additional provider.)

As a courtesy, any of our existing users prior to the price increase, can "lock in" their current pricing for as long as their credit card can be automatically rebilled (see our EULA Paragraph #4, Cost for a discussion on how this works).

Thus, we recommend the following two steps for those looking to get the lowest price for the longest time:
1. Update your license to include all the providers who work in your practice (since they will cost only $200 each now, but $995 each after July 1st).

2. Purchase maintenance/support for the practice (since it will cost only $100/year for each additional provider now, compared to $500/year for each one after July 1st).

The reason we are implementing this price increase is to make our pricing more equitable based on our experiences supporting practices with > 1 provider (see details here) while also providing needed resources for all our upcoming improvements, including:

• Becoming CCHIT certified - we've applied (and paid 43K to do so) and our upcoming V5 (due out this summer) has been officially certified! Click here for info on this. CCHIT certification was needed as some third party insurers and malpractice insurance provide signficant benefits if using a CCHIT certified product.
• Ensure we can add ANY and ALL required features to meet the government's requirement for "meaningful use" of a "certified EHR" - both terms have yet to be defined by the government - which provides our users some of the stimulus (ARRA) money. Specifically, up to $44,000, or up to 75% of your Medicare billings - whatever is less.
  
• Complete our Practice Management module.
• Begin our Practice & Patient Services portal (discussed on our website).
• Improve the speed with which we can add user-requested interfaces and features.
  

Based on your experience with Amazing Charts, and the pricing of our competitors, we want to know your thoughts on how much Amazing Charts should cost, and if you feel our new pricing is fair and justifiable. We would also like to know if you've received price quotes from other vendors, and how much they wanted to charge you.

Thanks!
Jon

It appears that this pricing is still pretty low - admittedly I am biased as I don't have other providers in my office. Would love to hear from multi-user offices.

I am looking forward to new version.

I am glad my office is already using it. Offices with several providers are looking at a big increase. I think the current pricing is on the low side and that the future pricing is a little higher than what I would have expected to pay. Alas, I think we are just spoiled because of the incredibly low pricing you have offered thus far. I think you have the best "bang-for-the-buck" at the new price. I just look at other PM programs such as Lytec, that offer a tremendous PM program and offer appointment scheduling built in, and have an EMR product. Granted they run more expensive, but their product integration is great. I can't wait until AC has their PM module completed, as I think this product, if given a chance, could really lead the way as far as how these kinds of programs should be made.

Once all that is promised is delivered, it will be worth the price. Until then, the cart is before the horse.

Lytec does have great integration. But I tried it out for Dr. C and it was really horrible to use. That's why we didnt go with it. But that is a personal preference--I'm sure there are those that believe it is easy and intuitive.

How about letting us legacy users who were with you from the start, to continue with the pricing we were locked in at, regardless of when our credit card expires, as long as our support and upgrade plans are not interrupted. I think this is fairer.

I suggest Google ads in the right margin of every progress note

The price increase will help pay for the upcoming features on which we are working. The most important right now is to ensure we are HITECH compliant.

HITECH is the part of the ARRA stimulus package earmarking money for providers if they can show "meaningful use" of a "certified" EHR. Neither term has yet to be defined, but will be later this year as required by the law. Thus, we are currently as HITECH compliant as any other program - and by using us compared to other EHR software - means that the HITECH money is for our clients to pocket, instead of simply reimbursing them for purchasing bloated overpriced software.

We anticipate that CCHIT certification will be the "certification" they speak of (though this is not yet a guarantee), but since we suspect that is the reality, we have already applied (and paid 43K to CCHIT) to get CCHIT certified in both ambulatory care and child health. We hope to complete the long and painful process later this spring. In terms of "meaningful" use, we'll need to see how this is defined, but suffice it to say, ensuring we are compliant is our primary goal at this time.

Our secondary goal, on which we've already begun work, is to have a completely integrated, intuitive, and terrific practice management component. Our timeline for this is also to complete it in 2009 (long before the 2011 deadline for getting the maximum reimbursement proposed by the HITECH law - though PM use isn't part of that law).

In terms of "locking in" ones price forever, while we are looking at a new payment portal that would allow users to update their credit card and get warned of pending expiration, the reality is that prices (and our expenses) go up over time. The "lock-in-until-your-creditcard-is-declined-for-automatic-rebilling" concept, seems to be a reasonable way to allow our precious users to pay less over time while still protecting our need to spend money enhancing our products and complying with whatever new requirements are thrown at us (i.e., CCHIT and it's 43K application + 7k each year to remain certified).

OK, I have to weigh in on this one.

For some reason having each doctor pay the same amount just sounds worse psychologically. So $995 for the first doctor and $749 for the next doctor seems better.

I don't think it is fair to charge $500 for support for each doctor. I am a solo practitioner, and I pay $500 per year. A ten physician practice would pay $5,000 per year, but I don't think they would use that much extra support.

Here is my crazy idea. Use the numbers above for the actual product. Then charge $750 or so for support.

Now, to offset the other charges, raise the money with donations. I know that I would donate up to a grand. But, have a contest and see who comes up with the best slogan for a T-shirt. For instance, mine would be:

HELP AN EMR.

Make sure you give a CCHIT.

With the AC logo on there somewhere.

One of the other users came up with a good idea. Basically, something like $995 for the first doctor and then something like $695 for the others.

Then for support, do something like

1 to 3 doctors: $500 annually
4 to 7 doctors: $1,000 annually
> 7 doctors: $1500 annually

or to that effect.

Agree with Bert. Seems very fair and attractive from a business angle.
I would request making available advanced help from AC programmers with specific issues that prevent busy practices like mine from migrating to AC. By all means charge a fee for these services but please,please respond to queries from potential customers!
example: let us say $ 750 to help migrate a schedule file in a CSV to AC Scheduler, $750 to allow user to assign unique chart number and hide the chart-numbering used by AC... $1200 to do both and so on..

Dr. Bertman: You say to be "CCHIT certified for Ambulatory and Child Health"..Where does this leave specialists who want to use AC?

Yes Bert, but that would be the difference between $5000 for 10 docs and $1500. 43K is 96 maintenance fees. We are still a small group (~2000 and not all of them active, even less pay for support.) They need seed money to grow.

It would appear that the larger groups may need more maintenance with the new V4. But then, AC can handle larger groups better than before as well. They should have a higher profit margin as the cost to run a practice goes down as you add docs.

I do like the reduced for add on's such as $995 for 1 and $749 each for more, or $500 and $375 for each after.

I love the T shirt idea, I think you already came up with the best slogan, but who knows. I also like the idea of donations.

Good points. There are two points that come out of this:

1. Amazing Charts is probably the only company which asks its customers for their thoughts on what to charge.

2. Donations would probably not work with Logician or eMDs or NextGen, but it's at least a possibility here, because this is AC and this is our user board.

3. Not to bring up a sore subject and not to bring up the "S" word (subscription), but I do think everyone should have to pay an annual fee for the program. Maybe the first year you buy the program and support. And, then every other year, you just pay sort of a combined fee which would be for support. And, you basically have to buy support. I know that a lot of programs work that way.

I would second the suggestion by Bert. That is a fairer price structure. It is very painful to pay for a PA or PNP w/ a full price for second "provider" . Perhaps $995 for 1st Doctor, $695 for second Dr. and say $395 for each Mid-level. Charge $500 for support for 1 doctor, and 1/2 of the $695, for 2nd "doctor" and 1/2 of the $395 for mid-level providers, for support.

Remember guys, keeping Amazing Charts low in price is key! I am a startup and hopefully in next couple of months. I like some of the other programs out there (especially since PM integration is the issue "now" with Amazing Charts. But you cannot beat the value of Amazing Charts. You attract a lot of consumers with a low price point $995, but remember you still have fees for several things such as e-prescribing, connections, X-link etc... I tallies about $2000 for solo doc to have nice features and so the major savings from this program is the fact that support and training/startup is so inexpensive and easy that you save the $14000 training fees that other companies charge. Other than that the software for ECW is $8000 so we cannot make AC much more ans stay "very" competitive. I understand the product, especially with PM component may be the best out there but that is for another discussion!
Jack

Also, I think another price increase would be in order once the PM side became available. I know I would not have a problem spending $1995 for an integrated product.

I use Medisoft and find it very hard to switch to another due to the fact that if you use e-billing they make you have to stop and sign up for another, with medicare that can be very problematic.

I don't think the x-link is worth it as I think that if you upgrade medisoft I have heard you may also have to upgrade x-link. Double entry is not that hard (many offices do it already using PC-ACE for medicare) and the thousands it costs for x-link can pay for a lot of extra entry time.

I am not sure I understand your post. This thread was started by Jon Bertman who stated the new pricing structure and asked for reactions and ideas from the users. All of the suggestions offered since have been lower than his original pricing structure.

We are not able to dictate that actual rates, so most of us are suggesting compromises to keep the product affordable but still make sense to Jon.

Just a general comment about why I was attracted to AC and nothing more. Just an opinion

Oh, I know. I wasn't being critical.

I understand and agree completely with Jack. If the price goes up too much, it moves AC out of its spot as the most competitive out there and all potential new users will consider others. This is why I stated that IF all that is promised is delivered, it will be worth the price increase. Until then, it just makes AC less competitive. Without the functionality of other products and no PM, AC becomes less attractive relative to its competition. But, if Jon comes through (and I am confident he will) AC will still be the best buy on the market.

Amazing Charts is more than a good buy. It is a great program. When it matures to include PM, it will have a formidable position in the marketplace. It is simple, elegant and affordable.

Gary DeCrona MD
Ukiah, California

In regards to the price of support - has anyone priced other companies ? I use Medisoft - when I bought the brand new program and had errors on install I was informed the product includes no support other than the online knowledge base. If I even wanted help installing the program for the first time I would have to pay a high fee. This is outrageous - over the years I don't know how many times Jon has offered a hand - in the first year he even gave me free upgrades when I asked him if the newer version had enough changes to warrant buying the upgrades (I shortly thereafter paid for the service but I was amazed at how he would do that). It is ironic since I purchased my original AC from Jon when I first saw an article about him and his program and spent $250.00 on the software. I have always thought how cheap it was and wondered why he didn't raise his prices....I guess he finally is making an increase although I think it is amazing that the single provider still looks very low.

Second the motion. I use Castelle (now Captaris) for a fax server. Great product for network faxing. I bought the two line server, but really only needed one. The one line costs $1,000 for the fax server and software.

You know how much the support is after two months? $695 annually. Only $300 less than the product. You may as well purchase a new server each time and take the 60 days support. These people get you on the support. I love Cisco, but they do the same thing. Cisco puts more knowledge on their website than anyone but Microsoft. But, good luck trying to find anything. It takes support just to find anything on their website.

As one of the newer users of Amazing Charts, I have been very impressed with the flexibility, versatility, and methodology by which Jon has developed the program all while keeping it very reasonably priced. However, looking at the "down the road" issues, I wondered how they were going to keep cash flow for on-going R and D up, without a yearly subscription or costlier maintenance fee.

I have read from some, that the fees proposed are potentially going to price AC out of the EMR market....Perhaps for some. However, If Jon's goals for the upcoming 12-18 months come to fruition, not only will there be a program which has PM integration, but it will be "certified" or given the big HOO HAA
stamp of approval from all those Hoo Haa ers who have the ability to recoup some of the stimulus money back to us, the guys and gals in the trenches. If you look at this from a ROI method, there is no way, you could say, even if you paid full price for the second license.... you are recapturing more $$ by better documentation and thereby higher level charges (legally)

I realize that no on wants to spend more money. Jon has asked for thoughts. At some point this was going to happen such that he can expand his staff, grow the business and permit the development of the PM system that WE asked him to do. He can't do that for free. I do concur with Burt, that perhaps for larger bulk purchases a graduated declining fee. Perhaps for larger offices, onsite hands on training, or webinars that they can purchase time from the help desk folks. Even if the price were to increase 3 fold, the value is phenomenal. You forget, you don't need to buy paper charts.... paper for the copier, toner, labels etc. Factor in your SAVINGS before you truly critique what appears to be a well thought out request to consider a price increase.

Addendum, the addtion of the PM portion or the certification might be something that will actually encourage someone sitting on the fence to actually make the AC purchase. BTW Burt can I get one of those T-shirts.

Still finding a way to combine "Need More Cowbell" and the CCHIT.

There is nothing close to Amazing Charts with anywhere near the quality. There are some "free" things out there (you get what you pay for).

Soapware has a large base, I didn't like it when I looked at it and a friend used it in his practice and was not happy, but it is the closest competitor.

SOAPWARE has a $995 version, but they call it "EHR lite" (whatever the hell that means)
CCHITT cert is $1995 and
"professional" is $3995

subscription per license $995/$1250/$1750 per year, first year free.

Apparently the upgrade last year was described as "Updating from one SOAPware v4 to another v4 was similar to jumping off one bicycle and jumping onto another. However, going from v4 to SOAPware 2008 is similar to jumping off a bicycle and into an airplane." this is off of their website

I do think large practices should get a break, but the new pricing seems reasonable.

Should he consider maintaining Version 3 as a "lite" version?

I would not keep version 3 as a lite version. That would be a bit difficult.

For one thing, I think once everything goes SQL, that is it. You can't really go back. With a lite version, it would be an entirely different application which would be still improving.

For the most part the pricing will remain the same for the solo practitioner. Perhaps it might be fair to charge $400 for each additional user (when there are more than say 3 users) yet AC in my opinion is really geared more to a small office than a large group practice. However, if I were still in a 2 or 4 person group (like I used to be) I think the $500 per provider would not be unreasonable. That is only $42 a month, which is not a lot. And in that size group the program would work quite well.

I wonder if AC will eventually look anything like this:
















(from the Michael Douglas futuristic movie, "Disclosure")

Al

I just hope it won't work like this.

Fantastic, John! Oh that one was REALLY GOOD...

Al

Gee, that sounds like the one at our hospital.

Good one John!

Would you reconsider the requirement that any part time provider be considered as a full time provider?

We had one FNP who worked less than eight hours per week (thought I believe it was closer to four). I do not believe a provider that works that infrequently should be considered for the full price. Of course, I realize this isn't something that occurs frequently.

Interesting point. I am a solo FNP practice but my supervising MD has to sign off charts etc so he is essentially part time. He does not see patients etc.

It would seem as though only one of you would be charged at least from my perspective.

John;
Sam Horowitz here. Podiatrist.
I think your pricing is excellent compared to anything on the market, even with the increase. That being said, I like all of us struggle in this market place and want to get the best deal I can. I do not have a credit card currently on automatic billing for support. Can I initiate automatic billing to a credit card now and retain my current price structure?
Does this mean that if I add a new associate the price will be $200 for the addition and $100 additional for support?
You might remember that the last time I met you in Ft. Lauderdale at Pri-Med I commented on my amazement that you could keep the price as it was and still do all you were doing.
If we are CCHIT compliant does that mean there will be a separate repository for orders? I could really use that.
Thanks
Sam M. Horowitz, DPM, FACFAS, C.Ped