I'm having a daily problem on all my PC's of AC crashing when I push the script writer button. I worked with GA Tech Support and they first has me install the latest version 10.2, then looked through the logs and there is a .dll file error. Their solution is to reinstall my whole user account on the PC as they think a corrupted .dll file. However, I don't think this will help as it is doing this on all computers. Why would the same file be corrupted on all the computers? In addition, it's a huge burden to start with a brand new user account an a machine I"ve been using for a long time. Anyone run into this problem? Any other ideas? I hate to even have to ask here when I'm paying 3000 per year for support between the two providers here.
Given what you said, it definitely seems unlikely that all the machines would have the same corrupted DLL. What DLL and does it crash every time or intermittently?
I would be looking at antivirus/updates or if you added any custom medications in the meds database.
I have one windows 10 laptop that does the same thing, i.e. script writer causes a crash but only after first patient of the day the first patient can go into script writer no problem but then crashes on next patient going into script writer or order writer, after reboot good to go into script writer with now the first patient after reboot, huh?
I had an expert, who's also a patient, look at the log file. It seems there is an "unhandled exception" which is a problem in the code for AC. All exceptions "should be handled." He says it's a problem in the code, not the user account, and AC should go back into their code and fix the problem. This is a problem that disturbs me every day. Every day while talking to a patient about what meds they are on, AC crashes. I'm frustrated AC tech sends me on a wild goose chase (re-install users on all your workstations) to essentially get rid of me instead of fixing the problem. They are either malicious or incompetent.
The "Unhandled Exception" bug bites in multiple areas of AC. For me the most common place is when switching back from Message outbox to inbox. Causes restarts up to 4 times a day. I sympathize Chris, I've also done the tech support dance several times.
I am glad someone else also brought this GDI32full.DLL issue up. I initially brought this issue up with AC support in summer and they said the issue was with my PCs and to get my PCs fixed. I did windows reinstall, checked the file directories and could not find any issues with my PCs. In any case, I bought brand new PCs, spent thousands and problem persisted. I went through reinstalls, deleting and reinstalling video drivers without any resolution. Several months later and thousands of dollars later, I am told this may be an AC issue. It happens unexpectedly mid morning onwards. We have to restart AC, sit there and wait while it restarts, sometimes the note is resurrected and sometimes we have to retrieve it from deleted messages. All these headaches, loss of productivity, time and money are my loss with no accountability at the other end.
I am having this problem, not only during script writing, but also on order creation and printing. (running 10.0.2 on server 2012) Three weeks ago AC support worked on it for awhile, said they were going to research it further, and get back to me. They never have, and now won't respond to email or chat requests for help.Why am I paying Guardian Angel Support?
Yes, it is an AC problem and GA support have basically been directed to to send us on a random wild goose chase rather than fixing their code. My expert says it's a code problem, and basic practice is all unhandled exceptions need to be handled. It's an error going up the stack and blowing it up eventually. He says the .net framework version is also about 7 generations old. I think the current company isn't really caring about us anymore. With my PA, I'm paying 3000 dollars per year for GA. The only choice seems to be change EMR. In the meantime, we should ALL call support on this.
Well I may have found a fix for this, got to appreciate insomnia and Google I tried the following on my computer that has the crash problem and it appears to no longer crash, Hoof'inray Good luck to all give it a try
Hit Windows key and R then in the box type optionalfeatures.exe hit enter, it will bring up the Windows addition features box make sure under .net framework 3.5 and .net framework 4.8 the windows communication foundation boxes are checked and hit OK Depending on your computer it may automatically then make the changes or ask to download the necessary files if so do it. Reboot and give it a go.
Well an update the above was only a temporary 'fix' worked for 4 patients then crashed, damn after I got past the second and third patient using the script writer thought I was home free as previously would crash on second patient. Should have known better
I'm going to try the above and see if it fixes mine. Had 8 crashes yesterday and its getting so I can't even write scripts without it crashing. AC NEEDS to fix this problem. I appreciate the suggestion of writing a letter to the CEO. I think I will try that too. For the first time in 10 years,
I'm seriously considering switching to another EMR, as big a pain as that would be! Not just for the bugs, but the refusal to try and fix it.
I'll escalating the issue here at AC to see what we can do to get more visibility here and identify possible causes. I see the count of practices reporting this issue is now up to 5 just here on this board. I can imagine how frustrating this can be .....This is not an easy nut to crack but if we all put our heads together maybe we can figure this one out...We have never been able to replicate this in house and until we can identify it we can't fix it
Let's start by getting as many comments by those affected and look for similarities. If you're impacted please follow this thread so you get copies of everyone replies. We'll have the AC development team monitoring this as well. One thing to start with is the number of different workstations where this is occurring at your practices and what are the specs for those units? what AC release are you on, when did this start occurring for you? I've seen these reports for the past year or so..can anyone say it happened prior to version 10?
OK, here's my situation: Running AC 10.0.2 on mirrored server running Server 2012R. Firebox SSL firewall.Symantec Endpoint Protection Suite Several ethernet workstations, various brands, running Win 10Pro, all with 4-8 Gb Ram. 4 wireless laptops, various brands, running Win 10 Pro all w/ 4-8 Gb RAM. Any machine used to write prescriptions with have 10-20 episodes daily of hanging, crashing out of AC when script writer opens, or when script is sent. Also happens more rarely when opening order writer or sending orders. Rebooting server helps some (fewer hangs/day), but only for a few days, when the frequency of hanging and crashing goes back up. I have an active ticket open w/ Guardian Angel Support and was told my ticket was being escalated, but have heard nothing for >3 weeks. Started after upgrading to 10.0.2. Very, very frustrating!
Last edited by VTWilson; 01/22/20204:51 PM. Reason: revision
Mr. Conrad: I believe we know what the problem is and how to fix it. My local tech support looked at my log files and it is a .dll error from an UNHANDLED EXCEPTION causing the whole AC code stack to crash. He says "all unhandled exceptions need to be handled." It's an error in your code, and your company needs to no longer send us paying customers on wild goose chases with fake fixes that don't work. Your company needs to invest the development code team time in fixing the problem in the source code. This is from my local tech support, an experienced coder. Also, he says her .net framework software is many generations behind and outdated.
It's not quite that easy, I wish it were. To put it in some perspective, suggesting we fix all unhandled exception errors is like us suggesting that physicians just need to reduce all their patients LDL levels < 190 and no one would have heart attacks anymore. That's error is a basically a symptom...not the diagnosis. It also could be a red herring. It's not happening consistently everywhere and where it does occur it's not consistent on all workstations. We have never been able to replicate it here in house. All random practices and random workstations so we're looking for similarities. Program code does the same thing every time when executed. However it reacts differently with the environment in which it's running. It would appear to be pointing to the environment (server and workstations). The gdi32full.dll Error points to the graphics display interface. The code we execute can react differently with different versions of operating systems, how much memory does the pc have available at the time, maybe the workstation has its own graphic card with more memory, maybe it's some combination of events. Much of this is beyond my technical ability so I'm relying on others more knowledgeable but even they are stumped. We have a few thoughts and we have a team here sharing ideas and all the information we get from this board and the research the techs have done, and are doing, with our clients. We have something we want to try with Dr. Wilson and our techs are reaching out today
Chris, I did post this earlier but here is my office environment: Server and all client PCs have Windows 10 Pro, all hard wired, have at least 8 Gig RAM and running AC 10.2. The problem started occurring about 6 months ago. I don't remember if we had any issue before we upgraded to AC 10.2 on 08/302019. The PCs that have the issue have new Windows 10 installs. Some PCs had Windows 7 Pro and they started having the crashes when they were upgraded to Windows 10 Pro. I got rid of all of them, bought 10 new PCs, they all have fresh Windows 10 installs. I have checked the systems for Windows corrupt files and am not getting any errors. The hardware scans do not return any errors either. Most of the PCs have Intel I5 processors with built in graphics. The error happens on all "New installs of Windows 10 Pro and New install of AC 10.2" with both practitioners in the practice. There are a couple of PCs that were upgraded to Windows 10 Pro a while ago and ran past versions of AC and they do not crash. Windows event monitor registers "gdi32full.dll" errors. There are no other known issues with those PCs and other applications work fine. The crash does not happen the first thing in the morning. But happens randomly from mid morning (~10AM) onwards. When AC is restarted, I am able to at least take care of one patients prescriptions on that client PC and it does not crash again. I have not tried working on a different patient after finishing one set of prescriptions to see if it recurs. My staff has also repeated complained of "run time 91" errors while scheduling appointments. That has been an issue with AC since we started using it in 2005. Our database is large, there are 16 client PCs, and 7 active users at any time. I understand your points. It is not easy to fix a problem if they do not know what is causing it. At the same time, I had to stop working on those client PCs in rooms because crashes waste so much time. I walk back to one room that does not return errors to finish my work. Since the problem started, I have spent hours, working on my own (several windows directory / file system checks, running recoveries, Windows re-installs, reinstalling drivers, all the software, trying different fixes/ reaching out to AC support and Dell Tech support). GA support blamed the problem on my PCs and I spent almost 4k on replacing all client PCs. And here I am, stuck with the same problem and dealing with daily frustration. I suspect there is incompatibility somewhere in AC coding, Windows 10 and built in processor graphics. As soon as AC opens the script writer button is clicked, the AC window turns white and the program crashes.
Thank you for spending the time to document all of this for us here yet again I'm sure:-). Can you please email me your AC practice ID so I can review you account history?..I can't locate you based on your login here on the board. Email is cconrad@harriscomputer.com.
One other question please..that run time error you're seeing during scheduling...can you say if it's when you reschedule an appt vs booking a new one? We have a fix in the next release to solve run time errors when rescheduling.
Well, a "Tech level 3" sat on my computer for the morning. Of course it stopped crashing while he watched it. He left at noon and it continued to crash both on that computer and other stations all afternoon, the next day, etc. He says he cannot do anything if he doesn't "see it crash." How is this possible? All you will see is an AC window disappearing. If you don't have a log file, that doesn't tell you anything. He says he can't do anything with log files to solve the problem. I feel like I'm just being fed another line now, and the only reason to insist on watching it crash is if you don't believe it is actually happening. I won't continue to pay $3000 per year for tech support if I'm treated poorly.
We're just as disappointed as you that our proposed solution didn't work. We didn't hear back from you so we thought we were on to something, a little overly optimistic unfortunately. I know Chris spent a lot of time with you other day personally while you helped us trying to replicate the error while he was watching. I apologize for the inconvenience as I'm sure you had better things to do. We're doing more than just watching when we're online with you and it's necessary for us to make any progress here. We have a few other clients in the same situation as you we're working with as well. To be fair and minimize any additional inconvenience to you I've asked Chris to spread the joy around a bit and and focus on working with the other practices for a while. We need a little bit of information from everyone as we're looking for similarities so you're off the hook for now. We realize this continues to happen at your practice and others and we're doing the best we can to identify and resolve it. As soon as we have a solution or a potential solution to try we'll reach out to you.
I just started having this crashing problem a week ago after I bought a new tablet running Win 10. Interestingly, I had no problem with previous tablet nor with my six other office desktops, all running Win 10 Pro. Crash happens mostly with writing Rx, at times with clicking Order. First Rx of the day usually brings it, but it is unpredictable as many go through fine without an incident. Upgrading to AC 10.2.0 didn't make a difference! About 4-5 remote assistance sessions with the "guardian angels" to no avail. It is quite frustrating!!
Yes, we've also had the same Sam, seemed to be with buying latest Windows. Thanks Chris. I asked GA about working with a Microsoft specialist and they said they don't do that. Maybe the corporation should go that route. I look forward to hearing more.
VERY FRUSTRATING! Crashes about twice or sometimes 3 times a day, as with most of you said, usually when trying to do a prescription or when printing orders. I get a window with only a blue line at the top. At that point I usually have just about completed the visit so I have to make small talk with the patient while waiting for the imminent crash, the restart and restoring of the previously open chart (which does not always happen). Often I will be showing the patient what I am doing with their chart on the screen, so when the blue window appears I tell them "Oh oh, it's about to crash", and then we both commiserate about working with computers while waiting to restore everything. I also agree it probably started about 6 months ago. Hopefully it will be fixed in the promised new update....
Theo A. Stephens, MD Internal Medicine, Baltimore, MD
Dr Stephens.....Someone will be reaching out to get more details...i.e how many workstations, what are the OS etc..any chance this started after you updated PC's to Win 1) and / or AC to version 10?..I don;t see any support tickets on record so I can't trace this back internally..did you call support about it?
Chris - no I have not called about it because reading through the forum it seemed others are having the same problem but no mention that the problem had been solved. Would definitely appreciate someone looking into it. i have afternoon and evening office hours on Mondays and it crashed twice tonight. Thanks.
Theo A. Stephens, MD Internal Medicine, Baltimore, MD
Just a thought, I've had this issue for a while. Never an issue when on my server I don't regularly use my server as a direct input device however when I have it has never crashed when using the script writer, Windows Server Essentials 2012 R2 Current AC 10.2 although had multiple previous versions AC on it On my tower computer in my office never an issue using script writer currently latest version Windows 10, and current AC 10.2 previously same computer Windows 8 and I don't remember where I started with AC but never an issue However in my main exam room laptop Windows 8 then Windows 10 and many different versions of AC up to current 10.2 multiple crashes either using Script writer or Order writer predictable 1st patient of the day never crashed after that would crash. Finally got frustrated enough put together a micro computer latest edition Windows 10, latest AC 10.2 same as beforementioned laptop and it NEVER crashes. So what is different ? Could it be that all have different video cards and the crash has something to do with that. Think somewhere was a comment someone noted about unhandled exception and video driver?
Everything is on the table at this point. We have not had any reports of this happening on a server, though to your point not many people use it as a workstation. All reports so far have been using AC version 10 and above and all on Windows 10. No reports of anyone < AC version 10 or on Windows 8. We don't believe at this point AC version 10 is a factor as AC 10 is our minimum supported version and the overwhelming majority of all AC user are on 10 by now. We seen this sporadically last year but it's becoming more prevalent as more users update to windows 10.
Resources could me a contributing factor...seeing it more on tablets than robust workstations. Dedicated video cards may be another factor...The core programming code behind the Write scripts and Orders has not changed in many years. However MS has changed operating systems and subsequent patches...something is incompatible here and it's inconsistent..We have probably 20-30,000 + workstations on Windows 10 and only a handful of practices are reporting it. There's more out there as some practices are probably experiencing it and not calling us. Other are calling about random crashes but not specifically mention it's happening when in write scripts or orders.
We have a question for everyone following this...can you please tell us if you're using Windows 10 Pro or Home. And if you have both do you experience the problem on both?
To answer your question, I am experiencing this "Crash-Upon-Prescribe" problem only on my brand new Surface Pro tablet that has Windows 10 Home. Other office desktops all have Win 10 Pro with no issues. I will upgrade my tablet to Win 10 Pro to see if that makes a difference!
Update: I just upgraded from Win 10 Home to Win 10 Pro, and it is STILL happening
I have not had "crash on prescribe" yet, but when I click on script writer it is taking longer and longer to pull up. I just bought this laptop a month ago and the script writer was fast. now it takes thirty seconds before the script writer pops up on the screen. Dell laptop core i7 with 16 gB RAM Windows 10 Home
I did the "windows features" net framework 3.5 and net framework 4.8 tweak above and rebooted ... my script writer is acting normal again. pulls up in about 4 seconds.
I did the windows feature "trick" as well. It did nothing. Still crashing several times per day on script writer button push. (You'd think they could look at the code: what's happening when you push this button?) Also a couple times a day on the Orders button. We can tell it's going to crash, because it delays with the swirl icon, and then...... crashes.
We continue to to evaluate potential causes. Development has requested that we try disabling the preference for the system to "Automatically check interactions when first loading medications page". This is found under User Preferences -> Prescriptions-> in the General Medication Settings, just uncheck the top box if it is checked. If your are experiencing the crashing, and it's already unchecked then that would tell us that it won;t make a difference. Please reply here if that is the case. Otherwise please uncheck that box and let us know if you experience an improvement. It's just a theory and helps us narrow down the potential problem areas. You may also uncheck the second box and see if that make a difference but this will disable interaction checking during prescribing if you find that information useful when prescribing. Both of these preferences manage web calls out to 3rd parties and by unchecking them you eliminate that overhead. It may even speed things up a bit.
Thanks Victor for quickly answering that question!
To IT team:
I would like to share this detail with you: as I restore the chart after crashing (a nice feature that doesn't always pop up) I am seeing the "Risk Factors" window open without any click to that button from my end prior to crash. Wonder if others are having same!!
Thanks for the quick responses .....Others could still give it a shot, possible see if it speeds thing up for you a but or lessens the occurrences that you see today. We have a couple approaches we're evaluating and we're going to be making a few codes changes in the next release that will, at a minimum, provide us with much more information in the log files to help us narrow this down.
Development uncovered an Windows 10 patch that corrects a defect MS introduced last last summer, which coincidentally is around the same time we started getting reports of this. They resolved this problem in KB4512534 which was an OPTIONAL windows update. They may explain why we have thousands of practices not reporting the problem and it's so difficult /impossible for us to reproduce here in house. Please read below for more information. We suggest everyone ensure you have this optional update installed . We can't guarantee this will fix the issue but the description certainly leads us to believe it could be related. Please let us know if you already have this installed yet experience the problem or if after installing it you see any improvements.
Apps using Visual Basic 6 (VB6), VBA, and VBScript may stop responding with error After installing KB4511553, applications that were made using Visual Basic 6 (VB6), macros using Visual Basic for Applications (VBA), and scripts or apps using Visual Basic Scripting Edition (VBScript) may stop responding and you may receive an "invalid procedure call error."
Affected platforms: • Client: Windows 10, version 1903; Windows 10, version 1809; Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2019; Windows 10, version 1803; Windows 10, version 1709; Windows 10, version 1703; Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2016; Windows 10, version 1607; Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2015; Windows 8.1; Windows 7 SP1 • Server: Windows Server, version 1903; Windows Server, version 1809; Windows Server 2019; Windows Server, version 1803; Windows Server, version 1709 ; Windows Server 2016; Windows Server 2012 R2; Windows Server 2012; Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1; Windows Server 2008 SP2 Resolution: This issue was resolved in KB4512534. This ‘optional’ update is available on Microsoft Update Catalog, Windows Update, Microsoft Update and Windows Server Update Services (WSUS). As with any 'optional' update, you will need to Check for updates to receive KB4512534 and install. For instructions, see Update Windows 10.
Note Windows Update for Business customers should apply the update via Microsoft Update Catalog or Windows Server Update Services (WSUS).
Chris, I tried Installing standalone update KB4512534, and it did not go through giving error message " The update is not applicable to your computer". Machine is a Surface Pro- Win 10 Pro!
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