Home Forums Discussions Problems Windows 10 Updates and Amazingcharts

Every time we install a major Windows 10 update, it messes up the network and AC performance. After installing the updates today on the server (Windows 10 Pro), the network setting had to be changed again, got a bunch of Database not accessible messages and AC keeps giving message the connection to database has been lost. Looking up codes, writing scripts takes extra long with ongoing error messages. Does anyone have some simple tips that I could learn from and not only address it this time but prevent any future issues?? THanks

Well, I will tell you that some practices have enough with Windows 10 "we're here to help you" hell and have wiped machines and installed Win7. I'm sure Sandeep or James will be glad to earn their keep fixing what MS breaks but across a network, the business math of that sucks.

To minimize attack surface and maintenance costs, some practices are wiping old machines and installing graphical Linux desktops, and using terminal services.

Bottom line from a business perspective, how much do you want to pay MS for the privilege of breaking your network and taking your practice offline.

Thank you for addressing my gripes. I love Windows 7. The only thing is the certificate expires in 2 years and you know HIPAA. Will look into Linux. Thanks again!

Microsoft is facing a marketplace in two years where they can extend Win7 in hopes they can eventually have an OS that they think will appeal to folks who refused their gargantuan push of a few years ago, or they will go "All-In" and attempt to force users to join the Win10 borg.

They have effectively lost the commodity server space to Linux (look at what the majority of web services runs on), and the Apple generations continue to skip Windows, so they aren't winning in the desktop space. In fact, desktops are losing to mobile devices (Android and iPhone).

For many practices performance would go up and costs go down by going to terminal services and a mix of desktops (Mac, Linux) and mobile devices (Chromebooks, Android, iPhone). Your one Windows OS necessary would be the server, and MS is much less willing to drive their remaining server clients away with the kind of tone-deaf behavior that continues to alleniate the erstwhile Win10 desktop users.

Actually I recommend using Terminal Services/RDS as well. (More than 80% of our practices use it) But I'm still not a huge fan of using Linux desktops. A lot of the RDP implementations are done by third parties and aren't always updated. For example, there's still many Android/iOS Apps and third party RDP programs (thin clients, Linux, etc.) that haven't been patched for a major flaw in CredSSP (authentication used by RDP)
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4093492/credssp-updates-for-cve-2018-0886-march-13-2018

If a lot of your practices are using Linux-based thin clients and such, their firmwares will need to be updated. Not sure what Linux RDP client you use, but I would make sure that gets updated/patched as well. There's not a major price difference between Windows-based thin clients and Linux ones anymore either. You can get full blown Windows 10 Pro mini PC's for <$200 that make great "thin" clients.

One big plus is that Microsoft does have official apps for Android, iOS, and OSX. Linux however is still not on that list. So I would stick those if you decide to use non-Windows devices.

There's lots of other device compatibility issues with Linux. But hopefully you have mostly networked devices if you're going with RDS.

Is that a server or a "main computer?"

We are having the same problem. When the Windows updates hit we have all kinds of different network problems. We have a peer to peer setup and the main computer had a pushed update that locked out everyone in the office, including itself. Kept getting the error message that "the version of AC on this computer is not the same as the main computer" but this was on the main computer! I had to get Guardian Angel support to log in to help reset things. Typically the problem is just from one of the desktops or laptops not being able to find the main computer and AC. When this happens, I have to go in and reset the paths and then find AC on the main computer in the network. Just did it again this morning.

We also feel everything is slower. Pulling imported files and refills are two thing that are definitely slower.

Bert,

I know your point is that running an actual server would be preferable, and given MS BORG choices towards Win10, that may be the future unless clients have Win7 install disks.

The challenge for the AC client base is that they tend to be *very* cost sensitive, so if AC demands a server OS, they will loose a significant portion of the installed base.

Since RDP is supposedly an open architecture, there are several implementations that don't require MS to anoint them.

The alternative is that MS continues to purposely declare something is open when they continue to make it proprietary.

Some of us remember what MS did to Stac Electronics, the leopard hasn't changed their spots in 20+ years.

Hi Chris,

Believe it or not, I have just started using Win 10, and I am in no way even good with it. And, IT friends of mine hate the fact that it auto-updates. Especially, in the middle of the day, and you reboot and it decides to install 30 minutes worth of updates.

I just wanted to throw out to you this suggestion, and given that I haven't used it much I am fully ready to be told why it doesn't work. I do it, and it seems to work, but....

There are two settings on updates, one which lets you tell Microsoft a window that you CAN'T accept updates. Maybe they do anyway. But, there is another setting that allows you to pause updates, it says for up to 35 days. I am hoping you would be able to override that and check on the weekend and reset it for that period or check at night, anyway the reason to not have updates during work hours.

Since you have used Win 10 much longer I assume, and you have them on all of your clients, hopefully you can give me more information on this.

We have 7 machines all on Windows 10. The auto update feature is horrible. It was trying to update all day Tuesday while I was trying to see patients. The first time the window popped up it gave me an option to schedule the update but then I clicked just to stop it. An hour later, the pop up came up again and would only allow me to postpone by an hour. Kept postponing until after the last pt and then left the office. I came in the next morning to the computer with the forced up date unable to log onto Amazing Charts. I was able to fix this time. The other day when the main computer was unable to open AC had to be fixed by Guardian Angle. I still have no idea how that happened because of a windows update. I am not that tech savvy.

Thanks Bert, I will look for a way to change the settings. I havent't found one yet!

Ok, looked for the update setting and found where you can set "Active Hours". These are hours that the machine is not supposed to try and force an update. Mine was set from 8am to 5pm so obviously that didn't work this past Tuesday. I changed it from 6am to 11pm in hopes this will work. Didn't see anything about changing dates or even days of the week.

On another note, the update this week included a security update for Adobe. Now my imported files don't fit on the screen when pulled up until after i click on the actual document. SO it now takes 2 clicks to see anything that has been imported. My computer is the only one where this has happened.

Here is an additional resource that gives you detailed options.

Stopping automatic /forced updates

In researching this for a client, I will tell you that there is ample reports of "just turning it off" doesn't work, but no reason to add those here.

YMMV, but hopefully this will solve the problem.

Hi,

This section of www.majorgeeks.com offers lots of small free utilities to block or disable windows 10 updates:

http://www.majorgeeks.com/mg/sortname/windows_update.html

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Thanks Carl.

It is a shame that a major vendor is so tone deaf that an industry has sprung up to try and prevent their destructive behavior. This from a vendor who requires you to pay them for the pleasure of the pain - sounds like something else.

Greetings all,

I read this on a windows blog...

"Microsoft has yet to release instructions regarding 10 and its HIPAA and HITECH compliance. Until they do, due to Cortana, the Microsoft verbal search persona and tool, Windows 10 may violate HIPAA if you deal with PHI. The issue is Windows 10 shares Cortana search results with Bing.

Only Windows 10 Enterprise allows you to turn off data collection to abort the Cortana sharing issue."

... is this true and is it an issue? I still have Windows 7 Professional and DO NOT WANT WINDOWS 10. I hate Microsoft... Isn't Enterprise the edition that costs a fortune, geared toward big corporations and such?

Chris, Setting active hours will only tell Windows it can't restart during those hours and, apparently, it will not restart without asking you.

I think (I am trying it now), you have to go to Advanced options below that setting to set pause. This pauses updates for 35 days. If you decide to allow updates, you cannot set it again until after the new updates. Where they get 35 days, I don't know. Seems like a bit long. I guess one has to choose between security and usability or another way of putting it: Security vs If it ain't broke down update it.

I think you have half the battle won. If you know the particular update, you can go to Control Panel > Programs and Features. At the top left there is a selection for uninstalling updates. You can uninstall from there. If you want the security, you can go directly to Adobe to hopefully get the fix. I almost always prefer the usability over security. But, that sounds like it was more Adobe's issue than Windows. If Windows is the evil empire, then Adobe is...well I can't come up with anything that sounds worse. You would think that with Adobe going to subscription software, which I have done once but likely not again, they would have enough money to have secure software to begin with. Adobe Acrobat DC, etc. is a lot like Office, especially Word. You can use one of the apps for years and only scratch the surface of the "features."

Oh, you can get to the updates for reading about them directly on the site and for uninstalling at the Update settings. It's the same page where you set active hours. The setting to click on is just a little above. It's actually not bad the way it is set up. It takes you to a page where all the install updates are hot links which take you to the Microsoft page, and you can click on the Uninstall Updates at the top left. It takes you to the same place in Programs and Features. I believe that "Features" is an oxymoron.

It is just peculiar what the windows updates will do to the interactions between programs.
This morning did both the latest greatest windows 10 pro upgrade on 2 clients and also all the latest updates for windows server 2012 R2 it all went without a hitch and I could find no glitches between amazing charts and windows
About the only thing that I see are previous desktop icons that led to secure websites when clicked would say this website no longer exists but then manually entering the website address it went and now they are recognized
Consider myself lucky.

It seems to be something with Windows 10 and the peer to peer setup over a network.

One of the issues I realized after the update was the change in network sharing and security features. We kept getting database connectivity errors and some of the client PCs needed the data connection reset using the IP address of the server.
An unrelated question: The sql server seems to use almost 4 GM ram on the server and at times chokes the server. Is that normal behavior or I should worry about a bug or upgrade RAM? Any suggestions??

I can answer some of these questions, but once again, not enough information is providerd. (I don't mean once again aimed at you). But, it is much easier to explain or troubleshoot if the given issue contains the hardware and software.

The biggest piece of information is what version or type of SQL Server you are using. Right off the bat SQL Express can only use 1GB of RAM. I am assuming you mean 4GBs of RAM. Using the IP address is many times preferred if it works for connectivity. This puts DNS out of the picture. If something occurs, and AC tries to find the database again, and DNS can no longer resolve the IP, then it will not connect. On the other hand Computer ExamRoom1 will likely always be ExamRoom1, but the IP especially if you are using DHCP may change after it requires a new lease. Even then, it usually gets the same IP, but not always. Please let me know the type of SQL Server you are using.

Also, on the server or main computer, please give how much RAM it contains.

Neeam,

Obviously most users who use autosign from their profiles, will put it to enter their name, specialty or an informative quote or cute thing. For instance, Jon's is awesome. So is Wendell's. I don't have one, because I am not creative enough.

But, I have always though of adding a place for people to enter information about their network as it would quickly allow those with computer knowledge like Indy for Linux and Sandeep for Microsoft and Windows 3.1 to quickly assess that. So many issues are different depending on the setup. Right or wrong Peer to Peer is a much different set up versus a server\client domain with active directory, etc. I have made an example at the bottom of my post.

The server runs on Windows 10 Pro, 64 bit, 12 GB RAM. Sql Server Windows NT-64 bit version 11.0.2100.60. It is currently using 2.2 GB of RAM.The longer the server runs, the more the users, the higher is the RAM usage.
We have peer to peer network and currently have the latest AC version (10). Thanks for the help!

So, on Windows 10, the only SQL you should be running would be SQL Express and AC's instance on it. SQL Express, itself, will require RAM to run, but it won't be a huge amount. Many times as you watch the amount of RAM your server or Windows 10 is taking, people will refer to this as a memory leak. There are such things, but in this situation, that is not what is happening. SQL Express is limited in some things, hence the reason Microsoft gives away for free. One of the main limitations is the amount of RAM SQL Express is allowed to use or take from the OS, not to run SQL but to work within the instance of AC. SQL Server's instance (a SQL Server engine can run many instances -- one of which is AC) will take as much memory as the OS has limited by the amount it is allowed to take. With SQL Standard 2012, etc. this is pretty much unlimited. You must go into SQL and set how much RAM each instance is allowed. But, you can see that with larger companies and more databases, especially HUGE databases, having a lot more memory is beneficial. For the most part, with AC and 12 users, etc., you don't need a lot of RAM.

OK, on more research, the SQL that AC installed is simply the RTM version of SQL Server Express 2012. Probably what is installed on all. Anyway, it should be limited by 1GB of RAM.

Thank you for educating me. I had read all this in another post but did not put two and two together. Last week, the server used up to 80% of 12 GB RAM and Sql used most of it. I will install some more.

Sorry, I keep editing this on the fact that I now know it was Express. It really shouldn't be using that much RAM. When you restart the SQL Server AC service, does all of the memory return? Or when you reboot.

But, the memory that should be reallocated to the server should be just the 1GB.

Will do. What is curious is that all the issues with Sql using this much RAM started after Windows updates and install of Version 10 of AC. Thanks again!

Again, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I know that Win 10 updates will upgrade SQL Server, but majorly only with bug issues.

So, not sure what the problem is.

The server is 3 years old and AC support installed the seql server 2 years ago. I am too naive to mess with it.

That's basically what I have been doing lately. Use the "pause updates" switch to prevent random updates during the week (Windows 10 tends to ignore the active hours settings when it feels like it).

When you unpause the updates, it will force you to get everything up to date before you can pause again.

So I just pause until a good maintenance window, unpause all of the systems then, allow them to update, and pause them again...repeat next month.

It sucks, but at the very least I know they are all on the same version.

I also make sure it's only after patches have been out a week or two so I can know what issues to expect...

You are exactly right. What some get confused, which is easy to do, is to get the following confused:

Setting times for downloads and setting times for installs. It is the installs that get you in trouble.

Where Microsoft gets you, and I am not sure that your/our method will stop this is when you have a reason to reboot and it forces you to update. It can take 20 minutes or longer. It really should be like before. You get a message to download updates, but you can defer that until it is convenient.