Home Forums Discussions Problems "Can I log in and take a look?"

[rant on]

Why is it that every time I chat with technical support the very first thing they ask is "Can I log in and take a look?"

I recently received a very specific error message, and when I asked the meaning of said message, this was their default response. When I said no, they couldn't log in, I was told they couldn't help me. Really?!?!

If I get a system generated error message, I would expect tech support to be able to explain the error message to me and give me a few steps to take to prevent the error message from recurring, without going digging around my production system.

[rant off]

Dear Dawg,

Imagine a patient taking that attitude with you.

The number of things that can trigger a specific computer error message may rival the number of things that can trigger a specific medical complaint.

What do doctors do when faced over the telephone with an unconscious patient whose temperature is 102.3F?

They dig around to find out if the patient has swollen tonsils, was bitten by a rabid bat, or was found lying in the sun in the desert during a marathon.

One of my clients has generated four different specific error messages in the last two months, depending on what they tried to do first AC after the nightly backup went into an endless loop and filled the hard drive, a situation that could only be diagnosed by digging around the system.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Carl,

When I get a call from a patient, my default response is not "come in and see me, I can't help you otherwise", which would be equivalent to the response I get from tech support. I will question them about symptoms, and even simple signs they can relay to me, so that I can give them advice. And that advice may be to come in and see me, or even to go immediately to the ED.

I can understand the need to log in and remotely see my system for an error message that may have come from Windows or AC, or for esoteric behavior of the program. However, most recently this was a message in my Inbox telling me an automated process had failed. I would think that tech support would have a basic understanding of such automated failure messages such that the immediate response is not "let me log in and take a look". The message itself said to see if I was connected to the internet (which I was without problems).

Ultimately, the technician was able to tell me the problem was on AC's end "with the hub" and it was being worked on. If I had let her log into my system, she would have read the error message (which I had already pasted into my chat with her), had me restart AC, had me restart my machine, had me restart AC on the server, and then would have gone off to find out it was a problem on their end.

My issue isn't that support may need to log into my system to help me; I understand this may be necessary. The issues is that this seems to be the default response before they even take the time to try to understand the issue at hand.

NeuroDawg,

This is an excellent post. Although I can see empathize from the other side of the table, I completely agree with you. I can't remember if I ended up posting about my similar encounter with a seemingly na?ve support rep that I let login and have a "look." Short story: He did a whole lot more than look without asking and did not fix the issue. Then he tells me he's new and that he's done all the basic troubleshooting he can.

That's the last time I will let them "look."

I know this is not exactly what you experienced but it began the same way. I spent a good minute describing and pasting my error messages in the chat only to have them seem that logging in is the only way to begin troubleshooting.

I wish they would default to asking you questions or explaining the issue with you, like they used to. But I suppose that the majority of people are unlike us and simply want to have the techs login. I could understand that and see why they habitually want to login first.

The analogy is good but not perfect. In medicine, the patient has to come to you. But, medicine has a lot of phrases which help students become good residents become good licensed doctors.

History, history, history, then go back and get more history. So, you don't go examining someone until you know what to examine. Then you go to exam. Only after this do you do labs and x-rays. So based on this, the tech shouldn't just jump in and look around.

It isn't black and white. When to log in and look around and when to examine someone in your office is based on the history. Some things are going to be complicated and require logging in and some things may be as simple as asking how much RAM they have in the computer and finding out it is 2GBs and they are using 1.95GBs.

Just curious. How do you deal with an unconscious patient? And, rabid bat? Heat stroke?

My Friends,

Unfortunately, I must side with tech-support on this one. When it comes to computers, people are STRANGE. A patient will most often tell you the truth and go into insane detail about their problems because they want the pain to go away so they can move on with their lives. However, as someone who has spent years working in tech-support, I say WITH CONVICTION that our patients never speak to us that way.

* I can rarely get a client to tell me an error message, forget writing it down. Most often, they tell me they just clicked OK.***

* Most clients rarely have the patience to sit there and talk to me about their computer. Many yell at me, "Can't you just log on and fix it?!?!?"

* Often, one question leads to another question. Many, many error messages have more than one cause. See the previous point.

* The vast majority of clients don't have anywhere near the technical expertise needed to assist someone in tech-support by walking them through how the problem occurred.

* The vast majority of clients don't have anywhere near the technical expertise needed to follow the often complicated instructions to solve a problem. "Pull up Windows Explorer and go to the Amazing Charts program directory then edit the mySettings.xml file and enter <diagon> at the top to put AC in diag mode."

"What's a program directory? Can't you just log on and do it yourself? I don't have time for this sheet."

* There is no telling how your computer is configured. You may have your desktop totally rearranged or have AC installed somewhere else or have Windows Blinds installed making your Win8 machine look like Win7, etc., etc., etc. This means any instructions I give you may not work.

As you have probably deduced by now, the tech-support person in question, as well as many, many others, have been well trained to just log on and fix the issue themselves. With a phone queue showing 6 other people waiting for help, a supervisor bitching about how long each phone call takes, and irate clients (read: DOCTORS) giving them crap all day, a tech-support person is going to do what everyone else does:

Take the easy way out.

JamesNT

***I asked one person, in a rare moment of frustration, that if the error message said, "Clicking OK will allow me to have sex with your wife" would he mindlessly just click OK then?

Amazingly, I started getting screen shots of all error messages every time a problem came up thereafter.

It would be great if every patient said, "Yeah, I was hanging out with these deer in Connecticut two weeks ago and then I got these fevers and joint pain and now I have this rash. which keeps getting bigger." "What's that?" "Yes, there was this tick." It would be nice if all patients had a history like that. But they don't. They give symptoms, which triggers questions, which gives us more to go on, etc.

Support being able to remote in is the best thing that happened with support, but the client is still the customer, and it is their choice. Every support person has customers who knows right where the .xml file is and some who don't know the difference between logging off and shutting down. I will gladly let Microsoft or Dell or Sandeep take over the mouse but not other companies. And it's not our fault that Windows has one error message for five problems.

While being able to remote on is great for the tech, having the ability to do Chat Support is the greatest thing ever for the client. We then don't have to listen to support techs. If it weren't for us "doctors" support techs wouldn't have a job.

Heard a rumor that you were back, James.... now I know it's really you!

Sorry to hear about your recent travails. It is good to have you back, buddy.

Often tech support people are not the best at holding a conversation. They are often good with machines but not with people.
They can ask a bunch of questions and try to figure out what technical level the person on the other end is operating or they can just do it.

Every system is different, the AC folder is in a different place, some are peer to peer some server, variety of operating system. If you are trying to ask someone who really does not know their setup about all of this it must be really frustrating. They can often figure it out in a few minutes by themselves if left alone.

Now, I am not saying you should just let them run rampant on your system. I usually let them in and may or may not hold a conversation as they go through what they need to investigate. I can usually speed up their progress, but then again, I probably am somewhat more advanced than the average AC doc. I like to see what they are doing so I can learn from them. Again, most are not good at holding a conversation, but if you ask what or why, they will usually explain.

This is different from medicine. We need to be communicators. Those who are not hopefully are in area's that do not require a lot of communication like pathology or radiology. No knock, I know some of those that ARE great communicators, but unfortunately have run across primary docs that are not good communicators. It's hard on the patient and on them to figure out what's going on.

What you have is a different system than medicine. Perhaps surgery might be a better comparison. You go in and fix the problem. Unless it's neurosurgery, you probably don't ask the patient during the procedure how things are going. But you knew where to go based on the symptoms.

Great post Wendell...I too follow the AC people when they look around so I can learn. I consider myself more advanced than most, but certainly not an expert...just smart enough to ask a lot of questions...See you in October...Todd

I was going to say Great Post as well. It's funny, though. I always watch any tech who remotes in. I can always help them. Plus, it's fun for them to watch them type services.msc or other commands in the Run field even when the command prompt is right there on the desktop, lol.

I know I wouldn't have a commercial networking and computer business run my network unless they showed me everything they were doing.

Maybe we are annoying. But.....

There is NOTHING more annoying than when they ask you to reboot your server (can take 20 minutes) and

they continually say, "Is it done yet?" "What screen are you on?" Like when it comes to the logon screen, I am just going to sit there?

JamesNT: "Ok, for changes to take effect, we have to reboot your server. Go to START | SHUTDOWN and choose restart. It will ask you for a reason, just choose application maintenance from the menu then click OK. When you get the CNTRL-ALT-DEL prompt, go ahead and log in then let me know when you get your desktop back."

Customer with Advanced Degree in Medicine: "Ok. It's shutting down, I guess."

7 minutes go by.

JamesNT: "It's been several minutes. What's happening now?"

Customer with Advanced Degree in Medicine: "It's just sitting there."

JamesNT: "Um. Ok. What does the screen say?"

Customer with Advanced Degree in Medicine: "It got to something about PERC controller initializing then stopped there."

JamesNT: "How long has it been there?"

Customer with Advanced Degree in Medicine: "A few minutes."

JamesNT: "And you didn't think to say something before I asked?"

Customer with Advanced Degree in Medicine: "How was I supposed to know to say something? You didn't give me any idea how long this should take."

JamesNT: "Well, I would have thought something like that would be obvious. We could have saved that time."

Customer with Advanced Degree in Medicine: "Look, I'm not stupid and I don't need your attitude. I've had several more years of college than you. Just tell me what we need to do next to fix this because I need to start seeing patients soon."

JamesNT (momentary pause before reply): "Well, Ok. I'll just come over and fix it myself. You aren't that far away."

Irate Customer with Advanced Degree in Medicine: "Why didn't you just do that in the first place?"

JamesNT thinking to himself: Because you said you didn't want to waste time waiting for me to get there, smartass.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

What you guys have to understand is that for every complaint you register about how someone in tech-support treats you like you know nothing about computers and how annoying it is, I've got at least 12 stories like the one above.

Maybe we should all cut each other some slack and realize it just isn't a perfect world?

JamesNT

"Well, I would have thought something like that would be obvious. We could have saved that time."

Right about there I would have asked for your supervisor. If I am paying for support, then I take support's time. I doubt I would simply reboot at the RAID card screen either.

The OP simply said, he just doesn't want AC support to start off the session by stating, Can I log in? If Sandeep asks me, then, bam, he's in. If AC asks me, likely not.

Microsoft is charging $499 per session now. And, they probably give the best support on the planet. But, I will run and get something to eat while they are on the phone for $499.

I guess for me it is all about the results. If we get tech support promptly and they resolve the problem quickly, then I am happy. If they are personable and I can learn from what they are doing, then that is a bonus.
"Logging in and taking a look" makes little difference to me... but then again my level of tech knowledge is much lower than those posting here.

Great answer, but you know me.

The OP was simply stating while he doesn't mind their remoting in, he just doesn't want it to be the first thing they say.

Microsoft, Dell, etc. don't just log in. They ask you a few questions first.

Adobe, on the other hand, simply tells you your version isn't supported or your support contract has run out.

Agree with Wendell (always). I am NOT more tech inclined than most. But I have learned a few bitter lessons. When they (anyone) log on, you have to sit there and watch, and reconnect them or provide a password or whatever at some point. I tried once to manage a complicated trouble shooting session by having a local IT fellow baby sit the tech support as they tried to solve a problem. The problem turned out to be unsolvable, and the IT babysitter was a new hire from our local vendor and he did what he was told, just watching and granting permission to log back in or whatever when he was asked to help. Net result? The tech support was also a new hire and stumbled around until our system crashed and he then stated it was not AC, but a problem of our own doing that required our server to be reformatted. (Turns out it is very expensive to have a server reformatted).
Now I watch, and if it the tech support begins to stumble about like a drunk, (opening a folder, closing it, returning to open and close it multiple times as if searching for inspiration, or perhaps for Mario) I suggest we reschedule for another time.

The point I was trying to make, as Bert pointed out, was my frustration with tech support initially asking to log into my system, without really reading the error message I pasted into the chat window. This seems to be the default response no matter what I am asking in a tech support chat (except when I asked for v8.2.4, they very promptly and nicely sent me the links, for which I thanked them profusely).

FYI, this was the error message:

There is absolutely no reason for tech support to respond, "Can I log in and take a look?" when I ask "What generated this error message I just received? Especially the 86 consecutive errors. I'm not having any problems connecting to the internet."

It's a freakin' AC generated error message that came to my inbox. That should simply be a look up in their book of automated error messages and a response like "Your system has been unable to connect with the ACHub. Since you are not having problems with your internet connection, let me find out if there has been a problem on our end." With further discussion if there has been no problems with ACHub.

And to add to my frustration, the tech told me later in the conversation, "we normally don't walk people through a troubleshooting process."

And for every story about a smart [censored] doctor with an advanced degree, I can give you at least 12 stories of tech support who don't listen to what I have to say, and can't understand that I've already done the first 20 steps on their troubleshooting algorithm.

Which brings me back to our realizing it just isn't a perfect world and we should just cut each other some slack.

JamesNT

I have another perspective, and that is because clients call us knowing that they are paying for our time and expertise.

For lots of good reasons, we are busy these days, so we start with talking to the client to get as clear a picture as we can. Most clients choose to have our LogMeIn client installed, so we often have joined them on the subject machine before they are done telling us what they are experiencing.

Sometimes the solution is quick, sometime it is involved, but the effort is collaborative until we get to a point where the client can't help us any more, and we have to dig.

When it is a familiar issue for us, we can get it resolved in 15-30 minutes and get them productive.

It comes down to our model is different, we deal with all kinds of different aspects of the client environment, and we tend to work holistically versus step-by-step.

YMMV

I have always appreciated Indy's help, as he is well-versed with AC. I have had some great support from AC in the past, but it seems that they have more new hires now and the old guard has left or been promoted, and things do not always go as smoothly. The main thing that I have learned from being a doctor over the years is that lack of effective communication between any two parties leads to all kinds of problems.

Speaking of communicating, Indy, what does YMMV stand for?

YMMV = Your mileage my vary

By the time I found the post again, someone has already answered Mel.

Mel - thank you for your kind words, and it was good to speak again the other day. We missed you in Laramie, but folks are pushing for us to return to San Diego, so perhaps we will see the two of you the next time.

tech support: Megalith Computer Support, how may I help you?
customer: my blinking thing went away.
Tech support: your blinking thing? what do you mean?
customer: the thing that blinks when I want to type.
Tech support: oh, I think you mean your cursor. You don't see your cursor on screen?
Customer: no
tech support: move your mouse around. do you see your cursor?
Customer: no
tech support: do you see anything on the screen?
Customer: no nothing.
Tech support: well, is your monitor turned on?
customer: yes, it was until the blinking thing went away.
Tech support: Is a little light on the bottom of the monitor?
Customer: I don't see any light.
Tech Support: do you see a light on your computer?
customer: I don't see light on the computer.
Tech support: is a computer turned on?
Customer: I told you it was turned on up until the blinking thing went away.
Tech support: well is it still plugged in?
Customer: I can't tell.
Tech support: why can't you tell?
Customer: because it's dark.
tech support: why is that?
Customer: because the power is out.
Tech support: now are getting somewhere. You still have the box at the computer came in?
Customer: yeah around here somewhere I guess. Why?
Tech support: because you need to box up your computer and send the computer back.
Customer: it's that bad?
Tech support: yes, you're too stupid to own a computer

But at least they didn't ask to remote in and take a look

See how much fun they miss?

LOL!!

JamesNT

Where's the fun if you can't jump on a live call and dive deep?