Home Forums Discussions Problems AC Backup Issue

This is driving me crazy. We run AC Backup every night at a certain time but for some reason the time keeps getting reset to around 3 PM or 8 AM. This is during our working hours and I am sure it is slowing down the system!

I want to blame it on 7.1.2 but it has been happening for weeks and I can't remember when I first noticed it. I think it was happening when we were still on v6. I have updated everything Windows 7 updates etc. I have restarted the server plenty of times. I have gone into the admin AC Backup settings and changed the time to 11pm, 12am, 2am, 4am and yes I clicked Reset Next Backup. We also run Windows backup at 4am which has not changed, it runs itself without problems.

Has anybody else seen problems with AC Backup running itself during inconvenient hours?
I can't figure out how to keep it scheduled to run at night. Any suggestions before I try the "Angels"?

Well you could try typing "Task" without the quotes in the Search Programs and Files off the Start button. Checks and see if AC has a task scheduled. I couldn't find a way to do it manually.

But, if there were one in there, you could click on it to see all of its properties. It would be easy to edit it or change it so it would run only when idle. I tried to make a task using the Amazing Backup.exe. I don't think the task scheduler coule run the executable and click on the Backup button. There is software that can do that. Or possible write a script.

As an afterthought, when you go to the main computer, open backup, then choose Advanced Settings, then select Change Logon, and select Logon as Local System Account or if set that way log in as a user. I have no idea if this will help. I seriously doubut it. Just some thoughts.

I'll take a look into tasks. I don't think the advanced settings for destination would help because that is justin case the backup location needs log on credentials and ours doesn't.

Not quite sure if this applies to what you said, late and too many beers, lol, but if you back up to a network drive, you have to log in with your username and password.

Around five to six years ago, I used to talk about backups a lot. So much so I think people just got sick of me. I gave a talk at the ACUC (in the good old days when we all met together), and I had to be stopped I went so long.

But, anyway, this was always my main theme. Obviously, there are the online and offsite backup strategies, but I have always maintained that the onsite backups were the most important. I would stress over and over to back up the entire server each night, to make sure you had everything and a bare metal restore. Then I always harped on what I called the modules. Which for me was File Assistant Pro (my own program for all imported item type stuff), Medware for schedule and billing and AC. Those were the three "modules of info" that absolutely could not be lost. So, while they were backed up onsite, offsite and online; before I left I had shortcuts on my desktop. I would click all three and watch that they were running. Then I could sleep. Plus, it is much easier to restore the AC backup and restore the compact Medware backup in minutes, than look through hundreds and thousands of files.

I guess that is my long winded way again of saying I never really trust AC software for anything. So I would rather do it manually.

Just a thought.

I didn't see AC under Tasks. And our local external backup is actually just an External HD plugged into the server computer running the backup. I think the underlying problem is with Amazing Charts.

Oh, it's no doubt Amazing Charts. Just didn't know if it were in there, if it were set to different times.

I also tried to have it run through the task scheduler. On everything else that is scheduled (and there are a bunch of things that I would not have any idea were scheduled) is in the task scheduler and can be scheduled that way.

A lot of things are scheduled on the program, say my A/V which is scheduled to scan at 9 am on Saturday. This was set on the program, but it is in task scheduler and, you can make major changes. Each thing in there has the path to the program and then after .exe there is gibberish like whrwerf0r3w0048wt. AC didn't have that (when I put it in).

I suppose the only way it would work properly would be via a script, which opened it, then hit run. But, you shouldn't have to do that.

This is the major reason I don't run it as a schedule. I would likely not notice for five days, and that would be bad even though it is set to say Backup Successful. I just do it manually, which may not work for you.

Not sure if you are backing up imported items or backing up online, but if it is only the program and you are backing up to an external drive, it only takes about two minutes, so I don't think it is going to slow down anything.

These are just ideas. Workarounds which have to be done with AC. It's frustrating, because if this were Microsoft or Dell, they would fix it 100% of the time, because the IT person you get basically "owns" the issue until it is fixed. I have had issues on the server where it has taken three days for them to fix, but they always fix it. AC will just say, well we can't figure it out.

It sounds like we back up the AC enc file the same way you do, Josue. We have not seen the problem you are experiencing. Each day, I get a message in AC confirming that the back up was successful.
I wonder if there is an issue with the clock on your server?
I would contact support and see what they have to say. Please let us know what kind of response you get.

Yeah, but he is getting backups twice daily. Support will probably say it is a bug.

Bert, actually AC only does 1 backup a day. The problem is that the time that I set keeps getting changed to a time of the day that we are working. I would like it set at 11pm but the last Report notification states that it ran at 3pm.

And yeah, around 3pm that day I did not notice any slowdown but its driving me crazy that it wont stay set at the time that I choose.

I checked the system clock settings and all seems normal. I've never touched it since first installing Windows. It is currently synchronized with time.windows.com

I am not ready to let AC remote in and play around for an hour but when I do I will let you know what they tell me.

This is a bit off topic but probably reassuring to those who back up AC including Imported Items. I have been concerned because my daily backup file (.enc) was so large, approaching 25 GB. So I did a trial restore from my ".enc" file on a non-networked computer. It takes over an hour for the AC Backup Restore program to complete, and you need considerable disk space to un-zip and unencrypt the .enc file (about 3 x the size of the .enc file). But it worked flawlessly on two separate backups.

John - you point out an important aspect of backups - in fact, after making sure the backup runs, the key is testing them. We have found that some restore, and sometimes they don't. We had a client that had ~18G backup, and it didn't restore for whatever reason. Another that he only way to get a successful backup was to run a SQLServer .bak.

Point being, if you don't test your backups once a month/quarter, you'll never know whether they are actually going to work.

For large backups, you can sync your ImportItems across the network, and just backup the other aspects of the database. This will give you are far faster backup/restore time, and does seem to improve the odds that the restore will work.

Definitely a good point on the II. Also, besides testing them, it is a good idea, if you are doing a specific backup (say when you are upgrading and you need to restore), it is a good idea to make several backups. Check the size of each to insure they are all the same size. One could be corrupted while the others are not.

If you really want to be anal about it, install the new version on a sandbox, and restore to there first.

Indy, in your scenario of backing up Imported Items separately than the database, is there any concern if the backups aren't done on the exact same day? Would an older Imported Items file corrupt a newer database?

The only problem is that you might miss imports that were done between the backup date of the imports and the database backup. If you did no backups for that day or week interval they would be the same. If you did 100 imports it would be looking for 100 files it would not find.

Remember that imports are a separate group from the database file, although they are referenced in a field to keep the count accurate. Thus, you can back them up separately as long as it is accurate.

I learned this the semi hard way because I discovered that my backups in one office were not "readable." The solution, as Indy stated, was to go into SQL Management Studio and do a custom backup. I never, nor did AC, figure out WHY it would create an unreadable backup (which was supposedly checked for errors) but that was the case. It did not include the import items, which I would later move separately.

Ultimately I created a "clean" backup and moved the database. It changed a one day adventure into a one week adventure. I learned a lot about Management Studio and the database, but.....

I think I'm feeling the need to do a backkup/restore of the database this week, just to be sure....... (I haven't done that in about a month.)

Looks like Amazing charts has upgraded their backup service. Received an email 19AUG2015 about it:
"New & Improved Secure Data Backup Service

Amazing Charts is excited to launch a new offsite data backup service, Amazing Backup. If you've been thinking about switching to the Amazing Charts backup option, now is the perfect time! Amazing Backup features:
Incremental backups - Including all imported items in your charts.
High-Level Performance - Incremental backups reduce bandwidth requirements and allow for faster backups, ensuring all of your data is safe.
Security - Features industry-leading 128-bit encryption.
Automated backups run seamlessly after hours. "

The incremental feature which includes imported items is appealing.

$300/year.

Has anybody beta tested this?

I would have to assume that this works. Just something which can best tested many times in house.

I still don't like it because as far as I know, you don't have the ability to get access to the backup without support. That was the latest I heard. I could be wrong.

Hmm we never received that email but I found out about it last week on another Thread here.
I requested more info on August 14 via their form but haven't received call or email so I guess its not for us.

It sounds very appealing because of the incremental backup but I have little confidence in AC's new offerings (i.e. tried using ACPM and it failed, v8.2.4 seems unstable, etc.)

Are they actually Beta testing it?

I know a little about this as we talked about it at a previous Advisory Board meeting.

I don't think it is that much different than the simpler version as far as bugs would be concerned, and I don't think they will be beta testing it. New versions of the program are much more involved and have to be used on multiple platforms, plus beta testers will be using many different aspects of the program on a day to day basis. The backup is a backup is a backup. I can't imaginge there are that many different scenarios.

The other thing (and I could be wrong again), but I don't think you will have a choice. My guess is this will be the backup program for those who already subscribe to the backup program. I doubt they will maintain two versions especially since one will be superior to the other.

I have to agree with Bert. I would rather have my own backups maintained (in several sites) locally.
Consider:
-- How long will it take to reach support if your office AC fails?
-- How long will it take to restore a large database over an internet connection?
-- Are you sure that AC's backup is not corrupted? There is no way to check.
-- If the restore fails, do you really want to do the tech support dance (it's the network, it's your system, etc.)
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

The New Amazing Backup is a significant improvement of the existing service...It will archive all your Imported Items incrementally so it's much faster..it only backs up what has changed since the last backup. You have complete control over your backups and the user can restore them on their own. However it's a fairly complex process , more than the average user wants to take on so our technical support team is available to assist you through the process. It's not something that should need to be done very often. There is a video available for technically inclined users who want to restore themselves.

The length of time varies based on the volume of data.

For users who desire to maintain their backups locally this probably wouldn't be an appealing service. However for users who want a maintenance free means to backup off site and don't mind having it stored in the cloud, encrypted so only they have access, and with guaranteed integrity this is a great solution.

We will be transitioning all users from the existing backup service to this new one over time..it's a huge improvement.

Thanks Chris,
Great to hear and very pleased this option is available.

Thanks Chris. I was hoping you could address something. When you say back up locally, do you mean a backup that we make or the backup that AC is making.

Currently, we have the best of both worlds. We can do the offsite backup, but the same backup is stored locally. The small encrypted backup which contains only the AC information is crucial for upgrading when you need to do a backup, install the new version, restore from the .enc backup file, then use the database tuner.

So, the way it reads it is difficult to tell. I use the local backup 99% of the time. In fact, I have never had to use an offsite backup. I guess it is more like 100% then.

The e-mail I got touted the new service and so I signed up for the new service:
New & Improved Secure Data Backup Service
Amazing Charts is excited to launch a new offsite data backup service, Amazing Backup. If you've been thinking about switching to the Amazing Charts backup option, now is the perfect time! Amazing Backup features:
? Incremental backups - Including all imported items in your charts.
? High-Level Performance - Incremental backups reduce bandwidth requirements and allow for faster backups, ensuring all of your data is safe.
? Security - Features industry-leading 128-bit encryption.
? Automated backups run seamlessly after hours.

We have had a couple of weeks of problems getting the backup to work correctly and error messages and getting bucked up to higher levels of tech support. Today the tech says the problem is my imported items are taking too long to back up.
It turns out I was not put on the new backup service as advertised but was running the "old" service. Now they need to put me on the new service.
Do not advertise a service if you are not able to provide that service!
Will report how the "new" service is after it is installed, but very irritated presently.
One that it took so long to figure out the problem, and secondly that I did not receive the service I had signed up and paid for.

Greg Phillips

Did you get the email, where it was "mandatory" to have them log in and set it up? I still haven't done it. I don't need the incremental. Plus, I like full backups anyway. I could see where it would be useful if you had a lot of Imported Items.

The thing that bothers me about support is not that they have an issue fixing something. Even Microsoft does. But, from what I read on the board, they far too often blame something it isn't or, worses, blame the user.

Looking back at e-mails, I got this confirmation e-mail on 8-20 when I ordered the service; but nothing after that.

Greg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dear Greg Phillips,
Thank you for your order.
This email confirms your purchase of Amazing Charts Backup.
This is an automatically generated message to confirm receipt of your subscription via AmazingCharts.net. Do not reply to this e-mail, but you may wish to save it for your records.
A Guardian Angel Support will contact you via email within 48 hours and schedule a date to assist you and walk you through the installation process. Prior to the scheduled date for the installation, you will receive an email with FAQs.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I sent a copy of mine. See PM as well.

I can't recall who they partnered with but like most cloud backup solutions that provide incremental backup, you need an agent to be setup on your server. Unlike the old cloud backup which uploads a single file, the new one needs to do more processing to determine what files have been added/removed. Think of it like getting carbonite setup. Just like those other cloud backup services, they have to be setup to know what files/folder to backup.

It will take a long time to complete the initial backup. For instance if you had 100GB of Imported Items and 1 Megabit/second (0.125 Megabyte/second) upload speed, it would take roughly 250 hours for the upload to complete. If it's running just at night, it would take about a month for the backup to complete. After that, it would only take an hour or so a night.

Transfer Time @ 1 Megabit/s
10GB: 25 Hours
20GB: 50 Hours
50GB: 125 Hours
100GB 250 Hours
250GB: 625 Hours...

Yep when I initially installed the Backup it took about 2 weeks to upload the initial file. Then after I upgraded to 8.4.1 it changed the file so it had to upload the entire file again. It's been almost a month and it's still uploading, although it's turned off during the day so it doesn't slow down everything.

8.4.1? I thought 8.2.5 was latest version?

Oops 8.2.4. Sorry about that.

Almost a month is way too long no matter what the reason; bandwidth, size, etc. Things are changing over that entire time. It's hard for it to do incrementals, which it isn't if it is still doing the initial backups.

Most of these offsite backups allow you to send a "seed" on a HDD, so they can copy it in minutes to your backup.

The same thing if you need to restore. They can ship a copy back.

^Yep seeding is the way to go. We do that with our backup.

The other benefit with the other services is that you can backup your entire main computer/server too.

Chris, could you clarify what "guaranteed integrity" means? Is the backup checked in some fashion?

^That would be a new thing if they were checking the backups manually. I doubt it though as that would take a lot of man hours. I've seen more than a few practices who had no idea that their backup stopped running. Usually right after an upgrade. You only find out when you need it.

The current AC backup utility has an option to check the integrity of the backup file after is created. I'm not aware of any additional checking after that point.

Following up, after two months and numerous contacts with AC the initial backup still isn't completed. AC hasn't responded to my last two inquiries. At this point the new backup program is useless, and it looks like they will be charging more for it.

Has anybody had good luck with Carbonite or something like that?

I've used Carbonite before. But, I think the whole idea of cloud backup is flawed. So, your system goes down and you are going to wait for a cloud download... for weeks or months? How can that possibly be an option? I have an onsite RAID backup with a hot swap-able drive that gets taken offsite.

Cloud backup should be just one layer of your backup strategy. It should be a last resort.

Backup Strategy
1) Local Onsite Backup - Rapid Recovery. Virus or server goes down. Current method of backing up to external drives is good.
2) Local Offsite Backup - Backup to your home (via the Internet, free seeding) or use rotating drives. The former is better since it doesn't require you to actively swap out drives.
3) Remote Offsite Backup - Backup to a cloud provider: Crashplan, Carbonite, AC, etc. Maybe look for service that offers a seeding service if you have a large amount of data.

OK, since I love to talk about backups. I am a little confused. Has it really been two months on the initial backup? There would have to be an issue.

You definitely want to do what Sandeep is talking about as far as a backup plan, but no backup replaces AC's backup in my opinion. It has been bullet proof for years. If your II are that large, then you really need AC to seed it. If they aren't going to offer hard drive seeding, then it really isn't worth doing. I have backed up an entire server to some of the offline backup programs, but it took only the weekend.

As Boondoc said, it isn't helpful if it would take that long to get the info back. Which is why many companies seed and reseed. Good cloud backup companies will send your backup to you overnight.

I still think backing up your imported items separately is the way to go. You can back them up locally in a number of places. Then do your AC backup separately onsite and to the cloud. You could even back up AC using the new software locally with incremental and back up the program data as a full backup to the cloud.

Sure, with my backing up the server several ways (I have the AC folder backed up, therefore the SQL databases. But, really nothing beats the backup that AC makes. I am not a big fan of incremental backups anyway. I prefer full backups especially with backups like AC and Medware, etc.

As far as getting help, I am sure you have tried pinging them. But, there are quite a few email addresses on the board now including the president's.

Bert,

For us less knowledgeable, what is seeding? How can I tell if my backup on the new system is complete. I keep getting warning messages that a backup did not complete successfully and that there is another backup running. One of the backups pertains to the SQL server and the other to AC files, apparently. I also have emailed AC about this and have not heard back in 5 days.