Home Forums Discussions General Discussion Advice for time off totals and paycheck company info

Hi everyone,

I would much appreciate feedback from everyone. This has caused an uproar in my office of four employees.

We have had a new paycheck company for about a year. Prior to that, we used our accounting firm, which, of course, was very good with numbers.

Everyone has a set amount of vacation time, sick time and personal time, which is well known to them. When they get their voided check stubs (pay is automatically deposited in their bank accounts), the amount of money accrued for above or used for above is stated on the checks (from now on I will use checks for the term of voided checks, which just show the information). If you look on the check, it may say,

Pay: $150.00
Tax: $12.00
Vacation time left: 42 hours
Personal time left: 8 hours
Sick time left: 16 hours

Unfortunately, the above hours were wrong by a lot. Based on these numbers, two employees used way over the amount which was allotted. Example: Two weeks vacation. Took three weeks. My office manager, saying that they took an extra week of vacation and were paid for it, they should have to pay it back or work extra hours to make up for it. The employees are staying that since the checks showed they had more vacation time, they should not have to pay any money back.

My other two employees kept track of their hours and, therefore, did not take any extra time off or extra personal or sick days.

Besides the fact that the Paycheck company is incompetent, what is the best course of action?

I'm no HR expert, and not sure I fully understand the issue, but:

1. You don't want to reward those who took off too much time, but you don't necessarily want to assume it was their fault completely.
2. You certainly don't want to punish those who were careful and honest.

How about splitting the difference, for example:

Those who took off the extra time pay back half of it.
Those who didn't get 1/2 the extra time off.

Obviously doesn't have to be half, but some number of days that everybody gets free because of the Paycheck company error.
And maybe try to pry a discount out of the Paycheck company to make up for it.

Michael

Thanks. I had suggested that the two who took too much time off, pay back half. I think what is going to happen, and this is sort of out of my hands, is that they will pay it back (by hours worked or deleted PTO). I guess think of it as working in a group where everyone gets four weeks vacation. You kind of know when you take your four weeks even if your pay stub says you have one more.

There have been all sorts of answers. Kind of a weird situation. One employee states that she realizes it now. The other is denying it.

I think that solution "tastes right". They were 50% culpable not having a reasonable idea how much time they had taken off, you (through your agent) also 50%.

Seems reasonable.
Paying it back is certainly fair to those who didn't take the extra time.
Those who took the extra time probably decided not to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Michael

I agree that 50% seems equitable. It keeps everyone happy. As the owner, this is the ONE place where I usually don't step into things. My practice consultant has been doing this over 30 years, and she is all about the money. She has put a lot of time catching this and researching it, and I think of all the people who could be hurt, it would be her. Of course, I can continue to talk to her about it.

Ironically, one of the two is our biller, and she definitely works with numbers all day.

Bert,

If you get staff to voluntarily cede that time you are fortunate.

The reality is that if the business gave them a document stating those balances, the business is on the hook for paying for all that is stated. The only person you have recourse with is the payroll company - it is their error acting as your agent. Still doubtful.

The real issue is how to recognize the diligent perspective of the two employees who keep track of their time. I would make a point of recognizing their diligence, award them some additional time, and give them preference in getting time off for the next 6 months. You want to send the unmistakable signal that you value the character and behavior of the two employees that proved trustworthy.

There are honest mistakes, and then there is poor character. Long-term, if you can't trust them, you don't want them in your business.

That is very well put Indy. I don't think it would be too much work to satisfy the "honest" employees as they think the 50-50 is rather fair. I feel the extra trip to Disney World is on us, but it is hard to stomach.

I'm also thinking that 50/50 is reasonable and equitable. I would dock future time, even if it carried over to next year to spread it out, rather than get money back. Please get an agreement in writing.

Hopefully, they are apologetic. But, if they don't seem reasonable and equitable in whatever process you have, I think you need to write them up, consider probation, consider discharge, and consider an audit for embezzlement.

I wonder if an agreement like this is legal, should it come to a labor board dispute. You might ask your medical society to ask the labor board for a ruling anonymously if any of these employees give you the sense that they might not want to be reasonable about it.

Since it seems that the employees knowingly took advantage of you, you cannot trust these employees to protect your practice. What a heartbreaker if they knowingly took advantage. Why wouldn't a biller tell you the paycheck system was broken? I know it's business, but you want respect in both directions.

Very weird group dynamics if two employees thought they could get away with it and didn't tell the others, while the others didn't try to get away with it, but also didn't want to tell you the paycheck system was broken. You may not be able to trust the second timid group much more than the first group. Maybe the second group want the first group to get fired and didn't stop it earlier. Who told the office manager?

Office manager has some responsibility, so might want to overreact, and you need a new payroll service.

A lot to digest. The two that didn't are my best employees. My business would crumble if one left. She may be the best CMA ever. She would never cheat me. I can't put anything on them.

I don't understand the other two. I could understand personal and sick time. Those are few and hard to keep track of. So, if you took three sick days over four months, and the pay stub said you have two left. But vacation time is altogether different.

Not sure if they have a labor board complaint. Maine is an as is state, and you can fire someone for any reason. I suppose you wouldn't want to name it. I am definitely not a lawyer.

Personally, I think the problem goes back to the employee manual. It should state that any amounts stated on your voided pay check are for guidance only, and you are responsible for your own time.

It was caught by my practice consultant who is like a physician to a nurse compared to an office manager. She noticed employees putting in for time when they had just taken vacation, and she keeps track of EVERYTHING.

If the payroll company made the mistake, they are liable.

If the were given wrong information, then whoever gave them the information is at fault. Perhaps it was an honest mistake, but it needs to be fleshed out so it doesn't happen again.

In regard to the owed money/time, I would initially write it off, but...

The honest employees get a raise and the other employees a pay cut, based on evaluations with honesty and stewardship of the practice being the criteria. The pay cut could be trivial, such as 25 cents an hour whereas the raise should be more sustancial. While you don't tell them what the others received, I would be surprised if it doesn't come out. Two will be happy and two will be grumbling.

If they leave, so be it. Better to be short staffed with honest staff than full staff you can't trust

Well I sometimes find myself caught between what is "right" and what works. If in the end you pay some money but things keep functioning, then I think that's how it sometimes goes.

I agree. We had an employee once who padded their pay check until we got a time clock. But, she was fired. There was no doubt, she was cheating. Here is tough to get in their heads. It is also tough based on is it 25 hours or 75 hours.

These pay stubs are extremely professional looking. It is difficult to ignore: Personal time left: 22 hours.