Home Forums Discussions Problems AC slowing and crashing on client computers

Our office has 7 workstations - mostly new Dell Vostros and new laptops, all with at least 2GB memory. The server is an Acer with 4GB. All computers and server have Win 7 pro and the network is hard wired. I'm having a problem with occasional slowing of 2 particular client computers. AC doesn't crash on these 2 computers - it just gets really slow. We have to close down AC and restart the computers. This sometimes fixes it, but what always works is if we run the AC utilities on the server. (However, AC doesn't get slow on the other 5 workstations when these 2 problem ones slow down.)

On two other computers, AC crashes a lot, like several times a day. AC doesn't slow down on these 2, it just stops working and closes down by itself.

Do you guys think it's a network problem? There are 3 other workstations where we don't really have these slowing/crashing issues at all. And the server itself doesn't crash or require restart. I have some knowledge of computers/networking I've learned from this board and my own reading but I wonder if I should just hire someone to fix this issue. The workstations all have updated Windows software and 3 of the 4 problem workstations were purchased in 2011. I really don't know what could be wrong with them since the other 3 computers don't have this problem.

I think it would be useful to know which computers have 2GB memory. I have noticed slowing on computers with 2GB (esp. on 64 bit Win 7), however when increased to 4GB, all the problems disappeared.


It doesn't happen in any particular screen? Just random? It would help to know your networking layout. E.g. are all computers wired to a gigabit switch?

Sandeep, I'm going to check the memory and see if I can find out exactly when the other 2 computers are crashing & report back. Thanks!
Serene

Sandeep,
The switch is not gigabit. It's a 16-port 100mb switch. The 2 computers with slowing problems actually have 4GB memory. The server has 4GB memory also. The staff reported that the 2 computers start slowing at the same time. Also these 2 computers are mainly used for the clinical part, whereas the other ones that don't slow down are more for administrative (demographics, II tabs, scheduling). Do you think it's a network issue? Maybe I should add more memory to the server?
For the other 2 that crash, I'm still monitoring to see what screen is causing the crashing.
Serene

Since both are slowing at the same time, it could very well be a network issue. Are all the computers wired directly to the switch? With AC Utilities, you can test the speed to and from the database. I would do a test right after a restart and then one when you think it has slowed down. Comparing those numbers will give us a good idea if it's the network or the computer. Similar times points to an issue with processing rather than connection. Significantly higher times indicate a network issue.

You can also check the RAM usage on the server. Open up the Task Manager to check the memory usage. If it's near 4GB, you can always add more. 4GB Sticks are $20. I suggest you do the same on the desktops.

The other possibility is that the main computer's hard drive is heavily fragmented. What makes me think that is when you said this "...what always works is if we run the AC utilities on the server." As time goes on, more and more "stuff" (scientific, I know) gets indexed (SQL and Windows Stuff). Since SQL express is limited to 1GB of RAM, it starts getting saved on the hard drive. Hard drives are slow and it will show as time goes on. That's why a lot of people see improvement when they restart their server/run AC utilities. Again, I suggest you do the same on the desktops. Auslogics Disk Defrag is quick defragmenter. Windows Defrag can take some time.

Gigabit switch isn't a bad investment. 10X times the speed of traditional 100 mbit connections. Especially with larger II, it's very useful. I would use these after you rule out the above.
D-Link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...TPFTA&linkCode=as2&tag=learnc-20
Cisco SMB: http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-SG100-1...3630160&sr=1-1&keywords=SG100-16

Question about this. On the server, disk defragmentation is a scheduled task weekly. (I guess that's the default setting? I don't remember turning it on.) Should I run it more frequently?

I'm going to try the db ping like you said and probably had more memory also. Thanks so much for your help!

Serene

Weekly is usually good enough. I would check the clients next. That's one good thing about SSDs. They don't need to be defragmented. They are also very fast.


Did the task manager show high RAM usage? You're welcome

This is tough because it happens to some computers and not others. First thing would be for all computers to be 4GBs and the server at least 8GB if not more. I haven't read all of this, but if you have Win 6 Pro 64-bit, as Sandeep says, you need more RAM. The recommendation for 32 is 1GB and 64 is 2GBs. Obviously, too small but just shows the difference.

Yes, I would definitely get a 1GB switch otherwise, you may as well be using Cat5, not even Cat5e. Make everything Gb.

You could make sure your page file is 1.5 times your RAM. This can make a large difference especially if you move it off your system drive, best if you have it on its own partition.

The problem with 4GB servers is it doesn't take long for SQL to become full. Eventually, you can even run out of RAM, and the server becomes slow. So, the reflex action is to reboot and get all that RAM back. But, in doing so, you lose the whole idea of how SQL works. That 1GB of RAM was 1GB of pages, queries that SQL learned AC liked. This allows AC to get its info from RAM and not the "hard drive" database. Much faster.

I think the most important thing to do (that very few people do even when it is suggested) is get everything out of the middle. Either connect the computer with a crossover cable (nowadays you can usually get away with play Ethernet) to the server. Or go to Best Buy and get a small four port 1GB Linksys switch and plug the computer via a Cat6 cable to the server. Now see how it performs. If it performs badly, it is the computer and you can put all your efforts there. If it works perfectly, then it is a networking issue.

Right now, AC is not slow and Task Manager on the server shows 2.84GB memory usage. This past 2 days it hasn't been slow (of course, right after I post about it).

The other 2 crashing computers are getting stuck on the II tab. I have Adobe Acrobat 9 standard on these 2 and all other computers. Adobe automatic updates is turned on. The II tab doesn't crash on the other computers (at least not enough to notice). All workstations have 4 gigs memory.

Bert, thanks for the suggestions. I do wonder if it might be the cables since we have some old cables that I don't know where came from. I tried googling how to tell if a cable is cat5 or cat5e but could never figure it out. I guess it's best just to try replacing them.

How do I do this?: "You could make sure your page file is 1.5 times your RAM. This can make a large difference especially if you move it off your system drive, best if you have it on its own partition."

Thanks again to both. You've been so helpful.

Cat 3 = 16 MHz = 10 Mbps max
Cat 5 = 100 MHz = 100 Mbps max
Cat 5e = 100 MHz = 1,000 Mbps max
Cat 6 = 250 MHz = 1,000 Mbps max

Cat 5e and Cat6 are both 8 mm in diameter
Cat 5 is only 5 mg

The only two that should really be used is 5e or 6. There isn't much of an advantage to Cat6.

If you go to www.monoprice.com, you can get either for dirt cheap.
______

If you right-click on Computer and select properties. Select the Advanced tab. Select Settings under Performance. In your situation, I would select "Adjust for best performance," under Visual Effects. Then select the Advanced Tab in the Performance Options and make sure Adjust for best performance of: Programs (which, I would venture to say will be selected).

Set your maximum page file to 1.5 times your total RAM. Minimum can be 512.Or you can just let Windows manage it. Probably overstated the performance. You can Google sizes of page files in Windows and get hundreds of hits.

I think the cables we have are definitely 5e then.

In the performance options, it should be adjust for best performance of programs? I thought I read on this board that it should be background services. (I can't find that post now...)

And in the virtual memory settings, we have AC installed on another drive that's not the C drive. I just saw in that virtual memory settings box that no paging file size was allotted for that AC drive at all - only the C drive had page file size. Could this have been slowing things down?

It is likely 5e. It should say it on the side of the cable.

On a workstation, you DEFINITELY set it to Programs. Think about it. You want your server to run the background services. You want your workstation, which has a lot of it committed to Program Files, to be set to Programs.

You can almost not go wrong with the page file. By default, it would be on the system (C) drive. It's best practices to move it. Doesn't matter where your AC folder is. The paging file can make a difference especially in situations when your RAM is low. But, I doubt it will really change your situation.

Personally, I would do what I suggested yesterday. Buy a relatively inexpensive 1GB switch. $35.00. Connect the two computers to that switch with Cat5e or Cat6 and see how they work.

Bert,

That's what I thought. I was talking about the server being background services.

I agree that what you suggest would definitely rule out the computer vs network. But since those workstations don't slow all the time, this kind of testing would be too much work/take too long for me. Also I don't have extra clients to put at those stations.

I'm going to add memory and probably get that Gb switch. Hopefully that will solve all these problems.

It could be that the switch may be losing ports. The fact that the two computer play different roles than the others muddies things, but it's possible that the switch is the culprit.

But certainly, a 100mb switch should be upgraded, given how cheap GB switches are.

Good choice. Hopefully you'll see a speed boost too when dealing with II.

I just want to give an update on our computer problems. I got the Gigabit switch that Sandeep recommened. Our db connection speed test showed about 0.8 seconds before the new switch, and now it's under 0.3 seconds. The slowing problem with those 2 computers stopped! yes! But I went ahead and decided to get more memory for the server anyway. The server had (2) 2 gigs = 4GB total. I got 8 more gigs; now it has 12GB. I notice slightly more responsiveness when I access the shared network drives. I don't know if AC is faster though.

I'm still having problems with AC crashing at II screen though. I already tried repairing Acrobat and that would help reduce frequency of crashing, but still crashing once every few days. (Or is that normal?)

I spent longer than I'd care to admit trying to figure out what II is. Imported Items.

We have problems with that screen as well. The staff is on orders to take extra precaution with that tab. Here are the orders:
1. If a PDF document has been selected and is displaying on the pane to the right, DO NOT Maximize/Minimize the patient's chart. This will cause AC to crash.

Well, actually, I think that's the only rule.

If you want to enlarge the pane, you should maximize the window before selecting a pdf document for viewing. If you have already selected a pdf, then switch tabs, maximize the window, and then you can safely switch back.

I've noticed that the above-mentioned II problem happens on windows7, vista, but NOT on XP. The problem needs to be fixed.

Hope this helps.

Using the enlarge button from within the saved pdf document (usually found by moving the mouse to the bottom of the document where it then remarkably appears to use)is the only way to increase view without the dreaded crash.
Maybe they can put one of those magnifying glass widgets into the saved folder as I usually only want to view 1 or 2 things not enlarge, enlarge, enlarge then scroll up/down left/right to find what I was looking for.
By the way one of the few things I like about Windows 8 is viewing PDF's is better

Cool. I will have to try that. I never noticed if it was crashing when enlarging or not. We have all Win 7 too. Thank you!

I believe the problem that Mario and Koby are referring to was corrected with the release of V6.3.3. Is that what you are using?

Yes I'm using 6.3.3.

My mistake- the problem was with Adobe Reader V10. Rolling back to V9 is what fixed it.
Looks like 11 is ok, too.

We already have Acrobat v9. I guess we have some other problem with it. I just tried several times enlarging the window after selecting the PDF, and it didn't crash the program.

Sorry, Serene. Maybe that will help Mario or Roby though.

Jon,
You are correct. We have V6.3.3 and AdobeX. We'll upgrade to the newest reader version. Thanks!


Serene,
The seemingly random crashing is unusual. All I can think of now is to be on the lookout for any patterns (e.g. computers, time of day, etc) and to contact support if you haven't already done so.

Also, I have to issue a correction to something I said earlier in the thread about AC and Imported-Items crashing. I said that the Imported Items crashing happened upon the maximization/minimization of the patient's chart if a pdf document had been selected for viewing. I remember it being this way, but I tested it out again, and apparently it only crashes whenever I minimize it and then un-minimize it. Maximization works fine.

Mine began crashing as soon as I updated the adobe reader. I sent a message to AC and never received a response. It is tiresome and disruptive. I would hope this would be fixed on the next upgrade.

I know little about this, but the common thread is that it is due to Adobe reader? Has anyone tried something other than Adobe like Cute PDF, etc.? And, make it 32-bit.

I haven't tried it in a while, but AC's history has been hard-coded [BAD] third-party app calls such that anything other than Adobe fails.

AC *should* call the OS, and let the OS determine what app is registered to handle a given file type, but they don't - Yet.

For viewing PDFs, I much prefer something light-weight that isn't as prone to attacks like Sumatra, a FREE eReader that handles multiple formats.

Agreed, Indy. That applies to this issue as well as the annoying Excel spreadsheet problem.

Meanwhile, you should be fine if you avoid Adobe 9. Catherine; which version of Adobe are you using?

I still have version 6.0.10 and it has been crashing numerous times through the day over the last 2-3 months. Getting worse. It frequently shows errors with meds interaction check, aparently, the program is not able to get to internet for interaction check, but all other programs get access to internet. Sometimes it shows "out of memory". Sometimes it showes "numerous errors happen" and shuts down. Sometimes ir just shuts down. All kind of problems. I only have 7 computers on peer-to-peer network, with AC located on dedicated computer, sometimes I reduce number of computers on network to 6 computers, but it doesnt really help. And AC has been very slow lately. I am planning to update to newer AC version by the end of this month. If these crashing issues dont resolve I am seriouly considering changing my EMR because this AC crashing issues interfere with my job performance.

I would seriously recommend upgrading to 6.3.3. It will take part of a Saturday, but will be a major improvement. 6.3.3 doesn't solve all problems, but it resolves several crashing issues I have seen with 6.0.x releases.

If part of your concern is having support to do this on a weekend, there are several of us that work weekends and would be available to help you remotely.

Hi apricot,

Please do not be offended by my comments. Here is an algorithm I would try when troubleshooting. First, though, we need more information.

What kind of computer is your dedicated computer? What OS is it running? Please give the specific one. What are your other computers? How much RAM is on the "server" computer? Is this wireless or wired? If wired, are you using 5e or 6? What are you using for a switch? 100Mbs or 1000Mbs? You say other things can get to the Internet. What other things? How much bandwidth do you have? These are important questions.

I wasn't a big fan of 6.0.10, but keep in mind that many people uses it, and it works for them. So, maybe it isn't the program but a combination of things. I think too many people assume it is the software. Was it working prior to three months ago?

The first thing I would do when there is an issue with software is upgrade. If you have an upgrade available, then I would install that asap. Also, how fast is AC on your server computer? Is it slow like the rest? If it is fast, then the issue is the network and not the computer.

The second thing I would look at would be the network. Cabling, switch, etc. If AC is working well on your server, then get a small, inexpensive Linksys 1GB switch and connect one computer to the server directly. Or use a crossover cable. This gets everything out of the way. If that computer is fast, then agaain, it is a network problem.

How do your browsers work on the bad computers? I don't think removing a computer will speed things ups.

Try these things and get back to us.

I would try changing the DNS provider. What could be happening is that the DNS entries are bad on your ISP's DNS Servers or your computers have cached the wrong address. I would flush them first then try changing the provider.

Start>Run>type "cmd">type "ipconfig /flush"

OpenDNS: 208.67.222.222/208.67.220.220
Google Public DNS: 8.8.8.8/8.8.4.4


You might want to list the hardware specs of your main computer/server. As many above have suggested, try upgrading to the new AC. A lot of stuff has been improved.


It sounds like you are limited by your hardware rather than AC itself. As Bert suggested above, try running AC on the main computer and if it is slow, it is definitely the main computer. I know AC says you can use off-the-shelf desktops as a main computer but the reality is that it works, just not very well.


Try hiring an IT Pro to check out your system or ping the Guardian Angels to check things out.
Or try the Amazing Charts Certified IT Support Companies list to find Certified IT Support in your area. I can also take a look if you are unable to find someone. Send me a PM in that case.

Thank you for your suggestions and support. I will try all you suggested and post results next week. For now that's what I get on numerous occasious every day.

Judging by the window border, it looks like you're running Windows XP. How much RAM does the PC have? It might be a good idea to post a snapshot of the Task Manager (performance tab).

It looks like it might be time to upgrade your machines.

apricot,

There seems to be decent info in those error messages. I would copy and past them to a text file. Make sure to click on the Details buttons and copy that as well.

It is interesting that it mentions the mscoree.dll file which is found in your Windows\System32\ folder. Not sure if it is applicable to anything especially since it hasn't caused any problem for anyone before.

Here is a link about that particular .dll file.

http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dll-files.shtml?mscoree

It copy it as is. But, if you copy the error messages, ping support, then email the support person, maybe he or she can shed some light on it.

Sandeep would know more than I.

2 things to check would be the amount of memory you have available and reinstall .NET Framework v4.0

Yes, I have XP with 4GB RAM on each computer

This is Task Manager snapshot from the "main" computer



This is Task Manager snapshot from the my computer

That's the whole picture...