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So this is a question for those early adopters/beta testers. How are you liking Windows 8 so far? What are the upsides and downsides you have found?

Sandeep,

Per my schedule, I will probably be taking the leap to Win8 in about 2016- or maybe skipping it completely and waiting until Win9 has been out a few years- (Sorry!)

Gene

Win 8 likes:
-- fast boot up
-- Microsoft account syncs prefs with all PCs running Win 8 (customizable), including Google contacts & calendars
-- swipe, pinch and zoom screen gestures
-- File Versions backup (like MacOS Time Machine)
-- keyboard shortcuts from Win 7 still work
-- only $39 to upgrade until end of January 2013

Win 8 NOT likes:
-- cumbersome if not using touch screen computer. Especially difficult to use "Charms" bar with a mouse. I suggest replacing mouse with a trackpad if you are going to use Win 8 with a non-touch screen PC.
-- learning gestures for navigation is a mild to moderately steep learning curve.
-- Windows Explorer now has that stupid "ribbon" menu, like Office
-- Messaging links with Microsoft Messenger or Facebook chat. But not Google Talk!

NEUTRAL:
-- Live Tiles. Seems like eye candy IMHO, but maybe it will grow on me

I've been trying to use the Metro UI, and I simply can't see the benefit in an office environment. It's kind of dumb how they are forcing users to use the Metro UI. Start8 from Stardock restores an extremely similar start bar that was used in Windows 7. (Costs $5, the best one I've found.)

Some good things are better multi-monitor support and automounting ISOs.

I think you're on the right track, Gene. I haven't found anything that would make it worth upgrading. One of things that ticked me off is that they are going to start charging for Windows Media Center. Charging for an already developed feature that's been there since XP. Even if you don't think you're going to use it, they are currently giving away keys for free:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/feature-packs

I've basically been spending time to make my Windows 8 identical to Windows 7 ha.

Jon,
Your mention of the screen gestures is enough that I'll try it on a tablet in an exam room.

i gave up on tablets two years ago because ... i lose things like stencils and my fingers were never small or pointed enough. I had a good experience using my neice's ipad but did not like the limitations of having to "remote" into the office main computer (LogMeIn) ...that happened to be in the room next door.

She had suggested I wait til Apple came out with its OS that would enable similar gesturing on computer or tablet - did Microsoft really beat Apple to this?

I noticed Dell offered a 20+ in monitor for 199$ and a similar sized touch enabled monitor for $699. I guess it will cost me a bit mre than 39$.

thanks

Gino

Dell used to have a 22" Touchscreen IPS monitor for under $300. It was called the ST220T. The only downside was that it did not have VESA mounting holes.

We bought 2 HP 22" Touchscreen with VESA mounting holes for around $300 back in April. Now that Windows 8 is out, we should see more touch screens popping up. Pair a touchscreen with an Ergotron arm if you plan to completely skip on the keyboard and mouse.

Planar also has some good touchscreen and they've been in the business for a while. I'm pretty Dell was rebranding one of their designs with the ST220T

Windows 8 uses gestures mostly for screen navigation. Except for a pitifully small number of apps available thru the Windows 8 Store (mostly games), the gestures don't work within apps, at least not in a way that speeds up input (the on-screen keyboard has the usual problem of occupying too much screen real estate).

The last 2 or 3 iterations of the MacOS have allowed gestures, not on the screen, but on an oversized trackpad. There isn't a lot of utility within apps. The iPad/iPhone operating system (iOS) has been of course touch-aware from the start. I don't find anything particularly unique with the Microsoft approach (although I do like the sound of typing on the on-screen keyboard, I have to admit).

Probably save the money, if you are betting on it improving ease of use. I think it will take a few more upgrades before entry into Amazing Charts is as easy as swiping a touchscreen.

We are taking delivery from Dell this week on behalf of a client, and it will be W7-64. The other option they considered was W8, then having us *upgrade* it to W7-64. Microsoft will continue to offer side-grade back to W7, but over time the issue will be W7 drivers.

An easy way to check is lookup that model machine on their support portion of their websites and see if they list W7-64 or W7-32 drivers.

For most folks, W8 is currently the new Vista.

Windows 8 isn't bad enough to be the new Vista ha.

I mean throw on Start8 from Stardock ($5) and you're basically back to Windows 7. There are lots of free alternatives, but I tried them all and Start 8 was worth the 5 bucks in my opinion. There are rumors of the start bar returning to Windows 8.

I've used Stardock and Classic 8. I must admit I like Stardock better, and I use both. At that point, Windows 8 is a hacked job of Windows 7 (you have to go to the settings on the bar to change some things that cant be directly changed in the control panel, but then, it's tough to get to the control panel in windows 8)
Overall I do think Windows 8 is faster. I like the $39 upgrade price. I may accumulate upgrade licenses but not activate them. I believe you can get 5. As AC and other programs become more Win 8 compliant, I will move more to that stage. I have 2 computers running the 90 day Windows 8 Enterprise, including my laptop I am using currently. While this is not upgradable, It would appear from the wording on the Microsoft site that the RC and CP versions ARE upgradable. I do have one computer with RC I may try this over the weekend.

I'm also using a combo of Classic 8 and Start 8. Definitely like Start 8 better, but it doesn't have multi-monitor support yet.

I've moved my personal computer over to 8 and have virtualized my old Windows 7.

Running Windows 8 and using Stardock's Start8. But, I uninstalled it and trying to get away from the Start Menu. It's moving that way anyway. It's like anything else -- you get used to it.

I thought about it. But I found it to be very inefficient. A full screen interface to start an app. I like to multitask and the Metro UI is more suited to one app at time.

Basic question--
Is Win8 faster than Win7 in real-world (medical)applications?
Is the networking more or less effective?
Does handwriting recognition work better?

I'm not looking for an oversized smart phone. I want something I can use effectively in an exam room.

Another question regarding Windows 8 that would be helpful to know...Has anyone experienced any issues with Windows 8 networking (or connecting to the network domain) with Small Business Server 2011 or any other Microsoft server product?

Ben Schnurr
Family Med
Denver, CO

@Sandeep

I agree with you, but...if we look at history, there was a time when Office 2003 was replaced by 2007 and the daunted ribbon. Everyone hated it. (Not so sure I love it now, lol). But, companies made 3rd party apps to change the ribbon back to the more traditional dropdown list. By 2010, users just accepted the ribbon and, actually, learned to like it.

If Microsoft stays away from the Start Menu, eventually, companies like Stardock with their $4.99 apps are going to stop making them. I don't know...it's a work in progress. There is no reason you don't can't have both.

@Tom,

Have you used Windows 8? The apps just take over the screen. the browser which browses from left to right hardly looks like a browser. It is lightning fast. It's almost as if it doesn't load the page, but it just appears. There are some sites it doesn't work with. It's a lot like Swype. Learning curve, yes, but my guess, although I am not there yet, is if you had 10 tasks to accomplish, and you were well-versed in 8, you could fly through them.

@Ben,

Are you speaking from experience, e.g. have a problem with networking. I haven't yet, and given I haven't with XP, WIN 7 and other OS, I can't imagine there would be a problem. Microsoft would shoot itself in the foot if it had issues being on a domain. Although, my guess is Mr. Sinofsky would be laughing. Then, since he designed it, maybe not.

@Tom,

While Windows 8 has not taken off the way Microsoft hoped, their whole business plan was to have the same OS platform on your desktop, tablet and smartphone. So, while having a touchscreen monitor isn't necessarily super efficient, given that its OS works pretty much exactly like the tablet and the cell phone, and they are all touch screen, you don't have to learn three different OSs. I think Microsoft can pull off the first two. Where they are fighting an uphill battle in my opinion, is with the Windows 8 phone. I haven't used it yet, but it has Windows 6, CE, and Windows 7 to get over. People had such a bad experience with the Windows phones, that iPhones and Androids have a huge marketshare. When was the last time my Nexus had to be rebooted? At least two weeks ago. How about the iPhone. Probably two to three months ago, maybe longer. But, I recall my HTC with Windows. A two reboot day was a good day.

I don't use Internet browsers very much in the office -- once in a while to research something -- and certainly not email or Facebook. I use Amazing Charts, Updox, and to some extent, Medware (though mostly the front office staff uses that). Of course those applications use the internet -- but it can't be OS issues that slow them down -- more likely the state of the Internet itself.

I suppose I can imagine putting Win8 on a home computer, but I don't see a business application.

It's awfully early to tell. I am not a Cloud person, yet, but WIN 8 certainly is designed to work with the cloud more seamlessly than any other OS.

I use AC, Medware, Email and a browser. I use a browser at the Point Of Care quite a lot. I envy you that you don't have to use email, but I probably get 25 to 35 per day, some of which are backup notifications.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jevdemon/archive/2012/09/19/windows-8-shortcut-keys.aspx

Given that many have a problem with the lack of a Start Menu, it may be helpful to have the shortcut keys above.

Windows 8 fits into my ....every other windows OS is either crap or unnecessary mantra

95--98--Me--XP--Vista--7--now 8 which were your favorites? any pattern there?

For me, best Windows is a tie between Win XP (works on minimal hardware, fairly quick and bulletproof, but config issues) and Win 7 (just works (in the MacOS sense), as long as you have the hardware). I don't think that Win 8 is either better or worse, just strange and hard to see any advantage. As far as the cloud tie-in, again there is little utility at present of having it in the OS -- and third parties (Google & Amazon) already do it better.

History may not repeat itself, but it often ryhmes.

http://news.cnet.com/Users-cling-to-old-Microsoft-operating-systems/2100-1016_3-5121458.html

http://www.crn.com/news/channel-programs/18829228/windows-xp-slow-to-take-hold.htm

JamesNT

Bert (and everyone) -

I have not upgraded any of my client computers to Windows 8 yet.

As I am sure many of you do, I have started to get into the habit of just doing blog and other searches for potential compatibility issues whenever I upgrade hardware or software due to unexpected issues I have experienced in the past.

I am currently running a SBS 2011 Essentials server and in researching issues between SBS 2011 and Windows 8 came up with the following:

Known Issues Connecting SBS 2011 with Windows 8

Windows 8 IT Forum

It appears that many of the issues have been addressed with SBS 2011 Rollup 3 and other updates:

SBS 2011 Essentials Rollup 3

but it would be interesting to hear from a AC user that has made the upgrade and see what their experience is. I sure over time any issues will get ironed out but I may wait to take the plunge.

----
Ben Schnurr
FamMed
Denver, CO

Ben,

Thanks for the info. Rest assured, I certainly haven't rolled out Win 8 on my entire network. Just playing on mine. Interesting stuff.

@John,

It will be hard for any OS to be better than XP. Of course, there is always Win 7. Main thing I have against Win 7 is there are 50 ways to get to the same place.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-5...ndows-8-critique-is-old-school-thinking/

James, great links.

One has to remember that Microsoft didn't create this OS in a vacuum, in fact, I think they have no issue (somewhat) with Win 7 being the OS of choice for businesses. But, Microsoft designed the Metro UI and Win 8 so it could be used across all platforms. This OS was designed with the tablet in mind, and the desktop, tablet and Win 8 phone will all look and feel the same. The only thing that goes against this is the firing of Steven Sinofsky for slow sales, which they should have expected. They also fired him for his abrasiveness. As Michael Pusateri said on Twitter, "The wrong Steve is leaving Microsoft." I should say that Bill Gates supported the move. Both wanted a happier, more collegial atmosphere; one that could produce another Vista.

If anyone doubts that Steve Ballmer is a CEO headed in the wrong direction, just YouTube him and watch some of his speeches. We joke about this, but he seriously needs stimulants.

I have to go with anything Paul Thurrott says (from the link above). The guy is a genius, and I was lucky to email him and have him personally walk me through a difficult set of command lines to forward ports in the Cisco PIX, a router ten times more difficult than Win 8.

Paul in a blog from the Vista days discovered the way to install a clean, full version of Vista from an upgrade copy, something that was both legal and done right under the noses of Microsoft.

Anyway, sorry for the meandering. My basic point here is Microsoft has created Windows 8 in order to integrate with Surface and the Win 8 phone. Of course, Surface is lacking and Win 8 must overcome years of phones that were severely outperformed by Apply and Android.

Now, whether or not you wish to use it as your desktop OS is a different story. I for one could see a benefit for my person desktop, if it had advantages, but to have my receptionist, biller and referral staff walk in on Monday would likely scare them to another office.

Now, contradicting everything I am saying is the fact that the OS will have to sell on its own if it is to be successful. I have found that it is blazing fast, and the browser is unbelievably fast. Of course, I am using an SSD III.

Ben,

I found that the easiest way to connect to the domain was to do it manually. I am not sure having difficulty connecting would be a big networking issue.

We will have to see if it has issues playing nice on the domain. I just don't see why it wouldn't.

Windows 8 and SBS 2011

http://blog.mpecsinc.ca/2011/09/sbs-2011-configure-sbs-connect-wizard.html

Windows 8 and SBS 2008

http://blog.mpecsinc.ca/2011/09/sbs-2008-configure-sbs-connect-wizard.html

Of course, everyone knows MS is bound to release a patch to fix all this, just like they did with Windows 7 on SBS 2003.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926505

JamesNT

We have been gradually converting to Win8 Pro since its release. We tend to bottom dwell on workstations, resulting in a hodgepodge of Vista and Win7 machines over the years, all Home versions of the OS. The opportunity to move to Pro for $40 a seat was irresistible to the guy who had to create user profiles for every employee on all those workstations.

The Results with 9 workstations (everything from XP nettops to brand new quad-core machines) on Win8?
1. We have had two driver issues: Neatdesk scanners and HP LJ P1505n are both promising Win8 drivers in "December or January." The scanners work, but not well. The printer is parked.

2. We abandoned Symantec antivirus in favor of the built in Windows Defender. (Pinching pennies and the reviews say it is as effective, if not as elegant.) Windows Defender doesn't like Amazing Charts Importer. Thinks it is a trojan, and requires us to create an exception to let it run.

3. Amazing Charts otherwise runs fine, although you can't install the full version with SQL to use as a "main" computer. Wonder if AC is going to update to newer versions of SQL....???

4. The Metro Interface is stupid on a desktop, but quickly overcome when we instructed staff to think of the start screen as a Start Menu that insists on taking up a whole screen. (We are on dual monitors, so the visual difference between the stark Metro and Desktop is jarring, but doesnt' affect function). I'd forgive the interface issues if Microsoft would at least let Active Directory control the programs on the Start screen.

5. For multi-user workstations, all that cloud connection stuff is worthless. (Hey Microsoft, have you noticed how many businesses have built their cloud structure on Google? And, no, we're not going to change to Live just so we can get your Live Tiles to work.)

6. The Metro apps are annoying because they insist on being full screen (see discussion above on the attempt to make Win8 a cross-platform OS). We promptly remove them from the Start screen and reset the default programs for things like PDFs.

7. Enough about interface... the guts of Win 8 are awesome! That 4 year old nettop with 1 gig of ram? Perks right along. That aging Vista machine with 2 gig of ram and single core processor...born again!

8. Upgrade pain? So far, only one machine has balked...finally did a "Keep Nothing" install and it took. Oddly, it was a 6 month old Gateway Win7 machine with minimal software on it. Go figure.

9. Software hiccups - - other than the limits on AC, and the 2 driver problems - - none.

10. Didn't spring for the Windows Media Player - - "we're working here!" and haven't found a need for it. (Supposedly they've omitted it from Pro to avoid the licensing fees for the codecs.)

The Verdict? 9 machines down, 5 to go.

Win8 - you may not be the belle of the ball, but you've got some moves.

The cheap upgrade price is a good incentive for a lot of people.

Start8 added multi-monitor support which is nice. It's basically like Win 7 again. Full Screen Metro UI isn't really useful for people who multitask/use multiple monitors. I get the idea is to deliver a consistent experience when going from device to device, but my phone and my computer serve two very different purposes. For the general consumer, this isn't true and Microsoft has decided to side with them. Besides the Metro UI, I don't really see any problems with Win 8. And there are many free (Classic Start Menu) and cheap alternatives (Stardock Start8) to get rid of it.


I especially like the new task manager. It's a lot cleaner. You can see percentage usage for various things like CPU, bandwith, and memory. You can easily tell if something is transmitting data when it isn't supposed to. (Typically you will see one disk and one Ethernet connection ha)



Disabling start up programs is a lot easier as well. You can even see the startup impact of various programs. E.g. how much each program delays your start up. Of course with an SSD, you tend to forget about things like that but with traditional hard drives it can help you isolate what's causing a slow startup.



Processes now have Icons and Use titles instead of exe names. In the older versions of windows, sometimes end task didn't work and you would have to manually end the process. Hard part was figuring out what the process name was for that app.


All in all seems like a more polished version of Windows 7 with an optional new UI. It's definitely not the "new" Vista. I never had any real problems with Windows 7. But I always like new stuff ha.

The first of the stats are in:

"Windows 8 may not be having the effect on sales that Microsoft had hoped. Sales are actually down 21% since the launch on Oct. 26, according to one researcher."

Link

Time will tell of course, but from a business perspective, I am already hearing from SMB (much less the enterprise space that is far more upgrade-adverse) clients "Don't need it, Don't want it, uninstall it and go back [to the previous OS] if we have to take it on new hardware"

It would be hard to be as bad as Vista was from a technical perspective, but both for business users and Microsoft itself, the marketplace currently deems W8 the new Vista - "Don't need it, don't want it, don't buy it, don't install it"

All of that works in AC's favor, as adoption will be slowed, and they have more time to catch-up. I'm more concerned with their ability to support Microsoft's new server OSs.

How is networking the windows 8 vs using windows 7 and work/home groups? Also does it easily work if some machines are windows 7 and others are windows 8?

Overall,networking on Win8 is not much different than Win7.

On one machine I did need to call tech support and they used the IP address rather than just connecting to the server, (which I had gone through the menus) but apparently this is sometimes an issue with Win7.

Once you get the start menu back with start8 or classic shell, it works well. I have now upgraded 2 machine. I have one machine that has 2 VMs with Win8 (I'm using temporary Win8 ultimate machines) I use for remote access.

I'm starting to like Classic Shell better because it has more options. Start8 is just smoother. I'm frugal, but don't really have an issue with $4.99 for Start8.

Unlike Vista, Win8 works. It somewhat changes the paradigm and people don't feel the need to move out of their comfort zone. Once I had my desktop and start menu back it's really Win 7.5 with a metro interface I can play with if I choose.

If you have Windows 7, I don't see the point of upgrading. However, if you're on XP, I would make the move to Windows 7 or Windows 8. (Windows XP goes out of extended support in less than a year or two. You have downgrade rights with Windows 8 Pro. So you can get Win 8 Pro on a new computer and downgrade to Windows 7 if desired.

Another thing is that BitLocker Disk Encryption is now on Windows 8 Pro as well. Bitlocker was only available on 7 Ultimate or 7 Enterprise before.

I just installed Windows 8 on one of my remote office computers and cannot remotely access my Main office computers on SBS2011 network. Does anyone know how to access RD gateway from Windows 8?

Make sure you include the DNS suffix when typing your username.

E.g.
Username: SanjeevP@amazing.local
Password: *********

Any luck?

Not sure about 2011, but with RDC, you can't use the IP address as that is private, and you can't use just the computer name as no server will be able to resolve it. So, you would have to use your domain name with .local or whatever you use so:

on the network, you could type: reception but if connecting remotely:

reception.clinics.local (as Sandeep mentioned)

Also, if you are the domain admin it doesn't matter or the local admin, but you need to make sure you have permission to log into the PC.

In the settings, again put your computer name but Fully Qualified Domain Name, the same as the other. Your username should be
domain_name\username so clinic\yourusername.

Under Advanced tab, you want:

Use these RD Gateway server settings:

Server name: FQDN again: server_name.public_domain_name

so server_name.clinicsfp.com

Logon method: Allow me to select later

Bypass RD Gateway server for local addresses.

Should be all set if this is around version 6.1

Win 8 works fine on clients.
Upgrading from XP or Win7 home is only $40 compared with >$140 to go to Win7Pro, so it works for me.
The Metro is rather silly for desktop use, but it is useable. I have the Power Shell or whatever it is called on one machine; makes it pretty much like Win7

Some people report "blazing speed" and such -- I can't see much difference. It did destroy my Microsoft Office Home and Student -- I can't activate under Win 8, not even by telephone.

I put LibreOffice on -- works about the same, and it's free.

Tom