Home Forums Discussions Problems SCHEDULED backup to network drive

I searched, but didn't find an answer to this.

Network is configured with workgroup, not domain. AC main computer is on Win 7 home premium. Scheduled backup to another folder on the Win 7 computer, and offsite backup to AC works fine. However, backup to another Win XP Pro computer fails.

I've set up a user "name" on the Win XP Pro computer, which is the same "name" user on the Win 7 computer where AC resides. AC also has a user "name" set up. (all three have the same user name set up)

When I go to Amazing Backup, then to Advanced, I can set the network drive folder for backing up as \\extracomp\AC_backup. If I leave the "current logon account" as "local system", the backup fails. If I click on the "change logon" button and select "user account", I enter "name" for user account, and don't know what to use for "domain". Whether I leave it blank, or enter "workgroup" (actual workgroup name), I get an error message box that the user account cannot be found on the domain.

The user "name" doesn't have passwords on either the Win 7 or Win XP computers, so I left that blank too.

What do I use for "domain" in this case. Or is it not possible to backup on a network folder on another computer if not on a domain.

Thanks...

Put the name of the other computer.

However that might stop the backup on the local computer.

A better way would be sync the backup folders between computers.

Sandeep... thanks for your reply.

I forgot to mention, that when I had the "current logon account" to "local system", if I press the "backup now" button, the backup to the network drive folder completes successfully. It's only when part of the scheduled backup does this backup to the network drive folder fails.

I guess I can have the doc do the "backup now" button every so often. I guess I can also create a batch file to copy the backup folder to the network drive folder, and put this in Windows Task Scheduler (your comment to sync both computers gave me this idea).

But, when you say to "put the name of the other computer", do you mean the actual computer name found in Control Panel>System, or the name in the User Account. I've put the name in the User Account. I'll try using the actual computer name.

So, does this all mean that unless the computers are part of a domain, the scheduled backup to network drive folders cannot be done?

Thanks again...

It should be the name of the computer, not anyone in the user account. With workgroups, you generally have to log in to anything you wish to access.

Bert... thank you very much. I'll try that next.

yw, Sandeep will correct me if I'm wrong.

Bert is correct ha.

The only reason I added that warning is that the local system backup may stop working as it's trying to use the wrong computer name on the local computer.

That's why I suggested the alternative of syncing the backup folder on a separate computer.

Sandeep, what program do you recommend for syncing folders?

Not sure what exactly Sandeep refers to, but SyncToy, by Microsoft, is actually VERY good.

Interesting. Does SyncToy allow for unattended scheduled syncing?

Hi, it's me again with the problem. As I mentioned, the computers are on a Workgroup, not Domain. In the "Advanced Settings" in Amazing Backup, clicked on "change logon", entered the Win XP computer name into the User Account box, left Domain and Password blank. Got message that "could not verify the specified account". Tried entering "Workgroup" (actual workgroup name) into Domain box, same message. Passwords are blank on the Win XP computer.

As I mentioned above, if left as "Local System", and click the "Backup Now" button, the backup to the Win XP computer works fine. It's only a problem with the Scheduled Backup that apparently needs to log on, but I don't know how.

Thanks again...

No, just for clarification username is the username on both computers. Password is blank. Domain would be the other computer's name.

Sandeep, if I understand correctly. In the "User Account", I enter the user name, where that user name is set up on both computers (Win 7 with AC, Win XP as backup network drive). In "Domain", I enter the Win XP computer name. Interesting... thanks.

UPDATE: I did this, and still get the message that specified account could not be verified.

Sometimes, Win 7 / Win XP connections can get finicky about not having passwords. Try assigning a password to the XP user account. Let's say the XP machine name is "Disney", user name is "Mickey", and password is "12345".

So in the backup logon settings:

User = Disney\Mickey
PW = 12345
Domain = leave blank

Or try:

User = Mickey
PW = 12345
Domain = Disney

Account could not be verified for the local system or the other XP account?

I still think synchronization is a better choice.

GoBruins... thank you very much. I'll try that.

GoBruins... I tried both suggestions... both failed.

Sandeep... the account could not be verified on the other XP computer. I guess I'll start looking into synchronization.

One more thing that kinda bothers me. If Logon is "Local System", and I press the "Backup Now" button, the backup to the other XP computer works fine.

Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions.

I should be able to help in a minute.

I had this problem and had to call support. Apparently you have to have the same account on both machines with the same password. I used the admin account with the same password. That appeared to solve the problem.
User: Admin
Password: same
Domain: Server (even though the other machine is NOT the server. I did not use Server\Admin as user)

Wendell, thank you for your information. When you say...

Domain: Server

Do I use the actual word "Server", or is this the other computer name, or is it "Workgroup" (actual name of network workgroup), or something else.

Also, the user on both computers need to have the same username AND password?

I appreciate your help. I'm trying to help the doctor that my wife works for... and I'm actually doing this over the phone with them.

I'm using windows home server which is on a peer to peer. Not sure if workgroup will work, but if it is the same for both, I would say YES.

Yes they have to have the same password and username.

Since you're in Hawaii, I would be glad to come over and troubleshoot. Just need airfare and a place to pitch my tent

Wendell, thank you again. In order to do what you suggest, I think it would be better if I go to the doc's office the next chance I get. I'll post back when I try it. I'm glad it works without being on a domain, though... just gotta plow through all of the required steps, I guess...

OK, as promised, I will try to add something. Maybe even if it is wrong, it may provide a little light. I feel worse now that I read Wendell's post, lol.

Les, in general if someone states something like "server," it means YOUR server name. I generally will put something like "server_name" to avoid confusion. A username such as "username" many times can be used just by itself, so if my username were Bert, I may put bert, followed by my password beneath it. Sometimes a domain is a little pickier and wants the domain name first such as \\domain_name\bert\

Now, my info. And, again, it sounds like A) Wendell got the answer directly from AC, and B) once again I am jumping in here, so I may be way off base.

But, it would seem from reading the Backup program, the first thing they want you to do is to be doing all of this on your main computer. Once there, you open the Backup program and click on Advanced.



Under Automatic Backup, you will see a bold paragraph and the user that is currently being used. As we have talked about, it should say LocalSystem, which is what it is running un. What they are referring to and they aren't very clear on is the Amazing Charts Service responsible for allowing scheduled backups to run. Now you can go directly to the service and change it, but it is easier to click on Change Logon, and it will then provide you a place for your username, domain and password. First, you are at a decided disadvantage without a domain, but I suppose you could use workgroup. But, generally, they want the NAME of your domain. Domains allow for single signon meaning once you log into your computer, you have access to everything on the network (that is what your domain admin gives you permissions for). This isn't possible for workgroups. Now, maybe it works, because it seems to work for Wendell.



Here you see the area where you can change the logon. I have no idea why I covered my username, lol. But, you see the user account, domain and password. There is nowhere in that field for the name of your computer. It is looking for:

1. user account: If you log into the main computer with Fred Smith or fsmith, then that is what goes there.
2. Domain: There you would put your domain name such as "riverside"
3. Then your password. I know you said you didn't have passwords. In general, as you no doubt have been told, is a bad idea. First, it violates HIPAA. If not now, it will. Second, the password is the single best defense against hackers. If I were a hacker, I would guess Les or LesMD, etc. No password is easy to guess. Your outside IP address can be lots of places such as email and many programs and other ways. I would guess that 20 people at least have my IP address. There are many ways on the Internet to find it. But, when the hacker gets to my server, then find a very strong password that is NOT anywhere near in the dictionary. It is random. Anyway, I will get off my soapbox. But, as you can see, you need a password to make yourself a user account for the service. Every time you try to save it, it will ask you for a proper password.

Anyway, I do this all the time. I prefer to do manual backups and yet I tried for about two hours on this automated once. To be honest, lol, I didn't have much luck, although I did succeed once. Then again, you guys have been working with it for a while.

Hope this helps. Probably a bit waste of time. (For me, I mean as again, this may not be what you were looking for at all).

Bert... thank you very much again for your time... much appreciated. As always, you've provided very useful information (not to mention all of the help you provided to me in the past). I'll post back later after I try all of these suggestions.

I did jump a few steps.

Bert is right on the money with his comments as usual and much more detailed. Yes, server is the name of whatever the main machine is. The accounts should have the same name and password on both machines.

I will have to give credit to the server side, it was easier to do with a server/client system since the logins and passwords are all centrally controlled. I have 2 offices, one P2P one Server.

Workgroup is the P2P default for XP, (I think Vista) and Win7 machines although a few are MSHOME.

OK guys... success (I think). I went in to the doc's office, and the other XP computer had user_name AND password set, but the Win 7 (AC main computer) only had user_name without password. So I set the same password on the Win 7 computer, and went to Amazing Backup on the Win 7 computer.

In Advanced Settings > Change Logon, I used...

User Account: user_name

Domain: Win 7 computer name

Password: password

Nothing worked... tried using \\'s with \\computer_name\user_name, \\computer_name... no luck. But this time got the error occurred when changing account information, instead of cannot verify user account on domain.

So on the Win 7 computer, I changed the account type for user_name from "standard user" to "administrator". This time got the error that could not open ACAdminService service on computer.

So, finally decided to try to run Amazing Backup "as Administrator". Then, "amazingly", everything worked... the ACAdminService was updated successfully. Hopefully, I'll know tomorrow if the Scheduled Backup works (I didn't have time to try it, and also didn't want to mess with it for now). But the fact that I could change the Logon is very encouraging.

Thank you very much to all of you for all of your information.

Interesting. Hope it works. That's great. There are some issues though which makes me wonder. For instance, the computer name would never be the domain name especially if you don't have a domain. For instance, my computer is Office, but is not the domain name. That is "riverside." Workgroup or MSHOME or Spaghetti would seem to work better if they are all the same.

Before I found the logon change under admin, I went directly to services on the main computer. (services.msc in the Run field) or Services under administrative tools. There are two services there: Amazing Charts Admin Service (which you used) and Amazing Charts Service. I tried over and over to change from local account to user account on the main computer. Obviously, given that the logon area on Amazing Backups simply changes the Amazing Charts Admin Services, that would have been the one I needed. But, given I didn't know, I had to do trial and error with both of them. One, then the other, then both.

They both describe themselves as controlling the Automated Backup.



Not sure your level of expertise, but the services run in the background or are ready to run when needed. So, usually the backup would work with the default System Account, but here they want to force it using your local account WITH A USER WHO HAS ADMIN RIGHTS TO THAT COMPUTER. Sounds like you needed it to both computers, another weird thing.

Anyway, just thought knowing how the Amazing Charts logon change in the bottom right relates to the service in the services of the computer, may help you understand why it worked and what you did.

OK, I finally read the first post (kinda helps) and have a little more of a clue as to what you would want to accomplish. First, I see nowhere in this process where you would need to use \\ and \ as these are generally use for UNC. As the fields are already labeled, they wouldn't be necessary.

It SEEMS that the problem is one that you would run into as a peer-to-peer. You don't necessarily have permission to access the XP computer even if the main computer is an admin. This is one of the downfalls of P2P. With single signon on a domain (when you log into your computer -- using a username and a password), you are now logged into everything that your admin or you lets you.

This brings up why it may work when you change the setup on XP. Once, you can access it, you may be able to run the backup. One key thing. On the folder that you designated to be the backup folder on XP, is it shared with full rights for everyone for the time being: Give "everyone" share rights and "everyone" full permissions? You could tighten up the permissions later. Actually, Microsoft recommends giving everyone share rights, which is weird, but after, you should only use domain users or authenticated users and NEVER everyone on permissions.

One thing that would be good to try is to use an external hard drive rather than back it up to another computer on the network. Network backups in general are shaky and even shakier on another computer.

Lastly, in the attachment above, note that both the Amazing Charts Service and Amazing Charts Admin Service both say they run scheduled tasks, only Amazing Charts Admin Service runs "Admin" tasks. I have know idea the difference.

Notice also that both are controlled by the Local System account.

I did not think about this when I wrote that last noc, but they do have to be accounts with Administrator privileges.

Another problem that can happen is if the target computer goes to sleep and is not set to wake on LAN.

OK... just got word from the doc that the backup to the other XP computer network drive folder was successful.

Bert... thank you again for your extensive information. I've gone into services.msc before, but mainly to stop a service and/or change the starting condition (automatic, manual, disable)... don't know what anything else really means, so didn't pay attention to the other information there. Also, I had the backup network folder on the other XP computer shared with full rights for everyone, so that wasn't an issue. And, I already mentioned to the doc that he get an external drive for backup, so he doesn't have to rely on the other XP computer (getting old too).

Wendell... thanks for your information which fixed the problem. Interesting that changing the logon in Amazing Backup requires Administrator privledges... since no other aspect of Amazing Backup seems to require it. Also, I don't recall hearing about that in the AC backup video tutorial (maybe I missed it). And, I have checked that the other XP computer doesn't go to sleep, since I've heard previously that this is a problem if the LAN doesn't "wake" the computer.

Thanks to all again. You guys are great in helping us all.

Hey, nice work, Wendell.

I only knew the answer because it was a nagging problem and I finally went through AC to solve it.

Previously it would not do an external backup, but then I set the folder to be remotely backed up. I stopped that when I was able to save the file to another computer.

In the other office (with a client server setup) I never had this issue.

Don't give it away. Just say you had to crack the code and write a few more lines.

Not sure if this is the correct area for this question, but here it goes....
I'm trying to understand more about backing up my imported items.

I was told that by checking the "eliminate imported items" in the backup utilities settings that this would set AC to not send the imported item as part of the database backup (both local and remote). However, does this also stop AC from backing up the imported items completely?
I see the "imported items" folder within the AC files. What is the best way to back these up the same way we backup the database?
I would like to backup the imported items every night on an external drive.

One last thing...are the documents in the imported items folder over-written each time a backup is done? That is , can the older ones be deleted?

Please help.
Thanks

Gary

If you back up Amazing Charts online without the Imported Items, you don't backup Imported Items anywhere. So make sure you back these up separately.

When you backup Imported Items using Amazing Backup, you overwrite the old folder.

I'm sure others backup the Imported Items separately, so I expect some responses to your question. I just backup AC completely (including Imported Items) to a local hard drive, and then copy that file to another drive to bring home daily.

Restoring from the AC online backup could take some time, from what I have read in these posts. I can restore from my local backups in a half hour and get back to work.

Gary,

I do both external hard drive and offsite backup through AC every night with the imported items but I have and RG6 cable with an upload speed of 645kb/s currently as I type this. Takes about 15 minutes with 875 mb of data.

Uploading a copy of the IIs everyday is not practical. Some people have II that are 30GB in size which is simply ridiculous to upload on a daily basis. What you need is incremental backup for the Imported Items. You can achieve that using a separate offsite backup program.

Imo, AC's offsite backup is a bit over priced for a simple file backup that only backs up those .enc files. When there are other services that will backup all of your files for like $50. I use iBackup personally because I backup numerous things: SQL, Exchange, SharePoint, Documents, and AC. iBackup has add-on/modules for these. For 200GB, it's $200. On the pricey side, but still cheaper than AC's solution for a lot more features. There are other technical reasons I like them as well. But for most people, Carbonite/CrashPlan/Mozy will suffice, especially if you only do file backups.

I was using Carbonite before, but they started throttling me after I reached a certain amount. A service that keeps me a month behind with backups is not one I want to use.

Best thing AC could do would be to take II out of the backup. This issue comes up all the way. And, people learn. But, I bet a lot more learn the hard way. II are important, but I am going to say only 1/10 as important as your basic EMR. I think AC ought to move II to a different location. Same with the Backups folder.

It's easy enough to back up II separately with any decent backup software.

I know people will likely get sick of hearing this, but I just have to say it again. My personal opinion is back up general to specific. Back up the ENTIRE computer with AC, your billing software, your financial stuff, every night to at least two external drives. Everything else is gravy.

I have iBackup (the only one worth using if you are going to back up AC as it uses VSS), but I don't really use it. External, NAS 100 feet away and 30 feet below and a take home weekly -- weak but still better than nothing.

That doesn't seem all that fast.