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Hi,

I'd like to wade into Virtual Machines. I've noticed that when I create a VM using Windows Virtual Machine, it is limited to 32-bit versions of OS's. So I thought about VMWare, but when I checked the web, it seems VMWare is hard to find?

So what are people using to create 64-bit virtual machines?

For experimenting and low-cost [free] purposes, we use CENTOS with the packaged added to support KVM.

Allows support for virtio drivers, and allows you to suspend/resume VMs in-between system starts.

There is a learning curve, but the base system will run for years at a time without system restarts unless you add RAM or disk.

Thank you for the response.

So I'm curious - what happened to VMWare? Did Smith Micro just give up on it?

VMWare is very much alive, but they are focused first on the Enterprise space. They made a catastrophic pricing mistake, and so RedHat and MS have been having a field day taking their business the last year.

VMWare has back-tracked, but they jolted the market, and folks started testing the alternatives.

Pricing comparison: http://captainkvm.com/2012/05/comparing-rhev-vsphere-and-hyper-v-pt-1/

Another option you can consider is VirtualBox.

Hyper V is also a good solution. VMware is pretty easy to find. Do you want to run it on a bare HyperVisor (ESXi, Hyper V Server) or on top of Windows (VMWare Workstation/player, Server 2008R2)?

Hi,

Some of that terminology is new to me, but we're going to run on top of Windows. Maybe SBS or Essentials if possible. Or, do we need a full blown Server install to run Hyper V?

If you want to run it on top of Windows, check out VMWare Player (free) or Workstation (100-150). Do take into account that Windows 7 will take resources in addition to the VMs you install on it. That's why bare HyperVisors are often recommended. However, if you decide to go this route. I don't think it's worth it for you to spend 700 on Server 2008R2 to have Hyper V with a GUI and then buy SBS Essentials. More cost effective to use Windows 7 and SBS Essentials if you want to go that route.

While running a bare hypervisor is more complex, it's more efficient and more secure since there are fewer attack vectors and the footprint of the hypervisor is small. ESXi is free and Hyper V is free. The backup solutions can be pricey though.

VMWare is one free virtualization program, Oracle's VirtualBox is another. Both make it easy to play with Windows 8, Linux and other machines. I use both machines at home with about 8 different virtual machines to use. I probably spend the most time on either Windows 8 or Ubuntu. I also have Window Virtual PC but only use the Win XP version on that.

May have to play with hyper-V server, but would need to work in CMI (command line interface) and I don't feel like learning it at this time.

We use VMWare to run an old windows 2K machine that has old immunization software.

I haven't used it for other purposes yet, but am considering running it as remote desktops to log into from the opposite office.

I have to recommend Hyper-V. Windows Server 2012 Standard allows for two virtualization guests. If you purchase Windows Server 2012 Essentials, that means you can have three virtual machines for less than $1400 in software (the essentials counts as its own license).

So you can have your Essentials server that provides network topology services, an Amazing Charts server, and another server for something else (Exchange, or whatever).

Hyper-V is also easy to manage and a $500 copy of Backup Assist will handle your disaster recovery needs.

And lease it all from Dell for $350 a month or less.

JamesNT

The only problem with James' suggestion is that SQL 2005 is not supported with Server 2012. Which I was a refrained from it in the first place. Of course, you could pay someone to setup the instance for AC and migrate the databases, but that could get costly. I'm sure AC will be upgrading sometime soon.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2681562

That means while you can use Essentials to manage the network, you will not be able to run AC on either virtual machine since Server 2012 Essentials also runs on the same Server 2012 core that the Standard edition runs on. Not to mention you'll have to deal with the issue of CALs and whatnot.

What you could do is follow James' suggestion and get SBS 2011 Essentials instead in conjunction with Server 2012. The main reason I advised against it was the price. SBS 2011 Essentials is only $400. Server 2012 will be double the price.

If you're bored give the Hyper V Server a try.

You can exercise downgrade rights and install one of the following:

Windows Server 2003
Windows Server 2008
Windows Server 2008 R2

as a virtulization guest and then still run SQL Server 2005.

JamesNT

I have implemented ESXi and as a hypervisor, it is easier than some, if you wanted to go bare metal there are several choices, but they are all more challenging than a GUI. Generally more attack surface as well.

James and Sandeep love their Windows, so I won't fault them, but as Wendell would point out, "CENTOS is free, did I mention free?" Also, you could choose any major distro and add in KVM support, you aren't stuck with CENTOS.

Thanks for all the replies - much appreciated.

So in summary (gleaned from other threads as well), if I wanted an OS that was easier to administer *and* gave me the option to run Exchange and Sharepoint and run some VM's, Windows Small Business Server 2011 is my best bet? Is there also an "Essentials" version of SBS as well, with the downside being that I won't be able to run Exchange and Sharepoint?

That about sums it up. SBS 2011 gives you Exchange 2010 ($1200) and Server 2008R2 pre-configured with easy to use wizards ($700) for only ($750). CALs are also only $60 for an Exchange/Server 2008 combo CAL (SBS CAL). Only thing is you might want to get on that now. Starting December, you won't have that option at least not as a preconfigured packaged nor will it be near the same price. Will be much harder than Essentials.

SBS Essentials is a much simpler version. Free 25 CALs. You have the full Server 2008R2 core at your disposal should you choose to implement group policy or turn on DHCP. Only $400 and there's a tutorial about installing it from start to finish on youtube. (hint hint).

As for running VMs. Both are good as guest VMs, but would do a bad job at hosting them given their resource usage. CentOS, HyperV, and ESXi are your main choices for the Type 1 HyperVisor (bare metal). For type 2, you have many choices VMWare Player, Workstation, Hyper V, VirtualBox, Parallels, etc.

Okay - I'm bored, so I think I'm going to have a crack at Hyper V.

Right now, we're running A/C on Windows SBS 2011 Essentials. I don't want to mess with this server.

JamesNT mentioned that Windows Server 2012 Standard allows for two virtualization guests. What other OS's can host Hyper V instances? Windows 2011 SBS Standard?

Is Hyper V only good for virtualizing Servers? Or can it be used for hosting Windows 7 Pro instances too?

I've heard Windows 8 can host 64-bit guests. How about I install Windows 8 64-bit in a box with 32GB of RAM, install Hyper V on it, then host a few Windows 7 Pro 64-bit machines?

Also, for virtualization purposes, would an cheap AMD quad core be better than an Intel i3?

Sandeep and I may disagree, but there is the spice of life.

Our experience with kernel-based virtualization is that AMD is a solid price/performance choice. Most AMD motherboards will fit the entire AMD family so you can start inexpensive and swap processors later to the high-end.

From what I've read, the consensus seems to be that core-for-core and clock-for-clock, Intel's newest offerings eat AMD's lunch. But I'm thinking that for a virtual box. a cheap AMD quad-core like the Phenom line might outperform a i3?

It is not recommended to load Hyper V on SBS 2011. SBS 2011 is already doing a lot with SharePoint, Exchange, DHCP, DNS, AD, SQL. It makes a good guest but a bad host.

You can host Windows 7 on Hyper V.

Windows 7 also allows 64 bit guests but not using Microsoft's Virtual PC. You will need to use something like VMWare Player (Free) or Workstation. You will need to enable a setting in the BIOS called Virtualization technology or something similar.


I'm not sure a single Phenom can handle that smoothly. You might want to look into a FX-8150 or i5-3450/i7-3770 if you will be running 3 or 4 machines.

Good to know, thanks.

You're welcome. My recommendation is to get stared with VMWare Player on Win 7 and work your way up from there.

Well, you've not steered me wrong so far

And I think it's been mentioned that VMWare can host 64-bit operating systems and is not limited to 4GB of RAM?

That's correct. That SBS Essentials tutorial was done entirely in VMware Workstation on Win 7 64 bit so I'm pretty certain.

Just make sure your CPU supports Virtualization ("Intel Virtualization Technology") in the bios to run 64 bit OS's.

Okay - thanks. I can experiment on my personal desktop. It's an i7-2600K.

Same thing I have now. On my way to dual E5-2620s soon.

Which mobo?

Current one is an Asus P8P67 Deluxe with the 2600k at 4.5 GHz. Next one will be a Supermicro X9DA7

Working beautifully, and having fun with it.

One hitch - SBS 2011 Standard shows blank blue screen upon launch, although I know it installed correctly because the Ctrl-Alt-Insert brings up a menu.

No such problem with SBS 2011 Essentials.

Turn off easy install. Shouldn't be using Easy Install for Essentials either.


Then later on go to customize hardware and select the ISO with SBS 2011 on it. That will give you the complete setup/fresh install.


VMware works really well if you have an SSD workspace. VMs run and install quickly.

Got it. Thanks.

Here is the list of supported guest operating systems in Windows Server 2012 Hyper-V:


Windows Server 2012
Windows Server 2008 R2
Windows Server 2008
Windows Home Server 2011
Windows Small Business Server 2011
Windows Server 2003 R2 with Service Pack 2
Windows Server 2003 with Service Pack 2
CentOS 6.0 - 6.2
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6.0 - 6.2
SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 11 SP2
Windows 8
Windows 7
Windows Vista with Service Pack 2
Windows XP with Service Pack 3
Windows XP x64 with Service Pack 2

JamesNT

Thanks much James.

What program/utility do you guys/gals use to "burn" a 6GB+ .iso file onto a flash drive and make it bootable?

UNetbootin seems to be the most popular utility. Anyone try Rufus? It seems to have a smaller footprint.

I just use diskpart with the command line.

I've learned that Windows 8 has built-in tools that can manage the Hyper-V Server and the virtual guests. That way, you can use a GUI, instead of a spartan command line interface.

That is, if you can come to terms with Windows 8. Right now, it's annoying the heck out of me.

I'm reluctant to move to Windows 8 as well as I'm not a fan of the Metro Interface. If I wanted a tablet, I would've bought one. But I will likely be moving to it once my next computer is completed. I will probably stick with VMWare Workstation unless Hyper V proves to be amazing. Also since I already have 14 VMs and converting them would not be fun.

My thoughts exactly. Like clockwork, it seems Microsoft has to screw up every other iteration of their OS. I like tablets too - I think they're sometimes useful. But taking away the Start Button = exercise in frustration for people who need to get work done. Despite that, Windows 8 has some compelling power features that will probably get me to upgrade.

Some people are downloading and installing something called Windows Classic Shell to get their start buttons back.

I started using a program called Start8 (stardoc.com), it will take you directly to the desktop, give you a start button and let you customize it.

I had a machine hard drive crash (couldn't do a back up from SBSE because didn't have a large enough hard drive) and was in the process of developing a machine so I put Win8 Enterprise 90 day on (40G drive), with Start8. I had some minor issues with having to install net framework 3.5 (4 is built into 8) and of course it coughed saying SQL server was not compatible (but it worked.) I did have to ping support about a strange network issue, but it was resolved. Networking is very much like Win7.

Works well, with Start8, it looks a feels a lot like Win7. You can flip into the Metro (or whatever they're calling it) interface, but I don't really need to. No issues with cute PDF, Nitro, Kingsoft Writer that are my standard fare. I forgot that my older HP laserjets are not compatible (but that was a problem with win7 unless you use a USB to paralleled converter.)

I'll probably use this machine for a while after I get the other one up and running just to play with. The license on the version of Enterprise is only 90 days, although I may be able to extend it.

Actually this machine better than most of my machines as I picked up a board and AMD 6 core for $100 at Microcenter. I really wanted the 6 core to upgrade another machine and took out a quad core which I used in this project.

For VMWare - once the Virtual Machine has been set up, should I install the VMWare Tools?

Absolutely.

JamesNT