Home Forums Discussions General Discussion backup strategy

We've had the same main machine since the practice started in 2008. I'm right now in the process of migrating everything to a new machine machine (win7, not a server).

I'm wondering about backups, should I re-setup everything from the old machine or what should I do different, given it's 4+ years later, etc.

The key directories we backup are c:\program files\amazing charts and c:\practice which is our general file share.

Nightly (automatically) we do this:

1) Run AC backup just depositing the ENC files in the BACKUP in the AC folder, imports NOT included
2) Run Synctoy to a local USB drive, syncing the 2 key directories. Rotates over 7 days, so if we have to go back a few days we could.
3) Run Synctoy to a NAS down the hall, same directories.
4) Run Acronis Backup & Recover 10, full drive image to the NAS drive
5) Run Carbonite, key directories only.

I don't know if this is overkill or messy or what. We never had to use a backup yet, but it's always on my mind, that we don't want to ever lose this stuff.

Some thoughts:
a) Synctoy feels like kind of an obscure choice, but it works, maybe I should use something more mainstream. It is a pain to setup all the days-of-the-week targets. I do like having the actual files not some opaque archive, but maybe I need to get over that.
b) The old machine was XP the new one is Win7. Win7 built-in backup is reasonable maybe I can dump acronis.
c) Should I consider AC's backup service, if using that do you "include imports" in the ENC file?

ENC without imports: 200MB
ENC with imports: 4GB
C:\Practice: 4GB

Thanks for any thoughts. I'm literally sitting here copying stuff between machines right now, friday night.

Moving to a New Computer
To transfer to the new computer. Do not copy any program directories directly to the new server.
1) Backup all FILES (.docs, .xls, .etc)
2) Run AC Backup Utility, include everything Imports, Signatures, etc.
3) Install new computers with desired programs, latest updates, etc. and copy files ONLY back
4) Install Amazing Charts latest version
5) Run Amazing Charts from the Program Files folder as an ADMINISTRATOR (Do not click the icon on your desktop)
C:\Program Files\Amazing Charts (32 bit/x86)
C:\Program Files (x86)\Amazing Charts (64 bit/x64)
6) Enter some bogus data temporarily during the setup wizard
7) Close AC and open the Amazing Charts Program folder again from above
8) Run the Backup Restore Utility and browse to your database (full .enc file) (you need the admin password)
9) After restore is complete, run AC as an administrator again. Login to verify information is present.

Backup Strategy
1) Local Onsite Backup - Rapid Recovery. Virus or server goes down. Current method of backing up to external drives is good.
2) Local Offsite Backup - Flash Drive method is good. Or you can actively restore from part 3 to a computer at home or something.
3) Remote Offsite Backup - You can continue to use Carbonite. Backup database without II or Sigs to Carbonite. Let Carbonite backup the AC folder II and Data001. This will keep bandwith usage to a minimum.

If you're confused about any steps or need some clarification, just post back here.

The Guardian Angels can also walk you through this if you're not comfortable.

Too bad. Would have been a great time to get a server. Anyway, you can never have too many backups, and I think you have done a great job covering all your bases. I may offer a few tips. And, you may want to streamline a little.

The first thing I would suggest is two hard drives. You can use two partitions, but if you lose the drive you are completely dependent on the backups. You also didn't mention anything about RAID. You could either go with a 80 to 120 GB SSD drive or purchase two and have a mirror. If you went with the mirror, you could partition that and have a system and data drive. You could add a 1 TB drive for backups. Or you could have an SSD for the OS and a HDD for your data.

I used to use SyncToy a lot, but I don't think it is robust enough to depend on. I remember you could use quite a few options such as copy, sync, left to right, etc. I always worry about syncing if something gets set up right to left rather than left to right and data is deleted from the backup and then overwrites the real data.

I do applaud your complete image backup, which most don't do. It is the most important part of the backup process. You can then backup to multiple drives with multiple full backups or use incremental. The NAS is a great selection, and it can be RAID as well. One thing I have found, though, is some backup programs back up great to NAS, but for whatever reason the backup can be hard to browse to. I have no idea why.

It's interesting, because Acronis used to be my favorite software, especially when it was Acronis True Image. It was easy and bulletproof. Then, they started making it more and more difficult with vaults and stuff, I couldn't figure it out. Plus, its VSS writers can demolish native Microsoft VSS writers. I do have an inexpensive one on my computer, which is the home version, and it is simple and rock solid. I love image backups.

Which brings us to WIN 7's built-in backup. I hate it. Not intuitive, and I don't trust it.

So, here would be my thoughts:

Use Backup Assist or stay with Acronis to back up the ENTIRE computer to your external USB drive. Possibly go with incremental backups and back up to 45 or 50 days. The nice thing about Backup Assist is it gives you many options to set up backups both what type and destination. Plus, when they come out with new versions, you install over the old one, and you are done. No new huge changes and NO new names like Acronis. Plus, you can back up SQL (you can with Acronis as well, but it is much more expensive). By backing up SQL, you can back up AC, every two minutes or whatever, and it takes about 2 to 3 seconds.

Given that incremental backups are fast, you could do a nightly full backup to your NAS.

Here's the good part. If you have a 1TB or larger drive in your computer, you can allow Backup Assist to back up the computer to the internal drive and then copy that backup to your NAS. Best of both worlds. There is nothing faster or more reliable than a hard drive right in your computer. Of course, your computer can completely crash, and you still have your external backups.

The nice thing about separating your data from your OS, is you can decide to just back up the data drive using less space and having faster backups. You can always reinstall the OS if necessary. Some would make a partition just for AC.

Now, for your "modular" backups (you must have billing software), I would back up AC using its own backup either to Carbonite or, better, your external drives. The AC backups in your BACKUP folder in the Amazing Charts folder are very fragile. They are absolutely in the worst place in your office. You lose Amazing Charts folder, and you lose the backups.

Using the AC backup service is OK, but do NOT back up your Imported Items unless you have an upload of something like 50Mbs. Either back up your Imported Items separately or just include it with your Acronis or Backup Assist backups. They will get way too big to back up online. 4GB is already too big. You have to back up the ENTIRE II each night, when you could be doing just incrementals. I used to always use the backup service. For me, I like to be able to access the backup, and you have to contact AC.

Carbonite is good. iBackup is better. You can back up the SQL database using iBackup. It is one of the few where you can.

You mentioned you have not had to use your backups. Make sure that you

1. Backup 2. Check to see that you are actually backing up what you think you are every two weeks or so. 3. Actually make sure you can restore. Not over your OS or data, but to another location to ensure your backups are good.

What do you mean by "opaque archive?"

Thanks for the ideas Sandeep and Bert, very helpful. Sandeep I did get a nice PDF from AC Support with basically your instructions for migrating AC itself, that went smoothly.


The new machine is RAID 1, two drives. I didn't think to mention that because I was listing all the backup approaches on the old machine, thinking which I should carry over. Also the line is "RAID is not backup" which I guess I can see why.

Another drive in the machine to backup to might have been nice. Of course I can always add it.


I think I use "echo" but yeah I guess if you get it backwards your are hosed. Incidentally NOT for practice stuff I tried Google Drive with about 200GB of data at home, and was absolutely terrified I would end up deleting the real files, so I quit using it and stuck with Carbonite for backups there. There's a difference between backup and N-way syncing.

I've always hated Acronis. I tried adding on their cloud backup and it never worked. I just find it overly complicated. I tried Win7 backup at home and didn't immediately like it, wasn't sure what was actually getting backup up. I will trial Backup Assist, see how it is.


Just that with synctoy you end up with the actual files exactly as they are on your machine. With Acronis and others I'm sure you end up with like a .TIB or .BAK file which is proprietary, it contains all your files and their utilities can extract it, but somehow having the exact real files is comforting. I've been using both approachs (synctoy and acronis). I haven't decided going forward what to use exactly, I will try backup assist. Is there something like synctoy which does copies raw files, doesn't stuff them in an archive?

Of course the advantage of the archive approaches is they can usually go back N days. Whereas a single synctoy mirror is only a single day, so if you have a corrupt file BAM your backup becomes corrupt that night. Which is why I did 7 rolling days of synctoy mirrors, but that was a pain to setup.

You mention verifying backups I did that early on but then mostly let it coast. One thing I did setup is an email to me every day (since I don't go into the office normally) with the most recent files on the USB and NAS drives, so I can see the backups actually happened.

The only problem I ended up detecting with that email is when the NAS drive shuts down. Periodically it will just shut down, due to heat maybe but it's never that hot in the office. I had an older dlink NAS drive that had the problem, so recently I upgraded to a new Synology drive, figuring new hardware would fix it, but it still happens.

Thanks for the other ideas and pointers too.

It is ironic. I hate anything that says 'Home' in it. But, the server version is horrible for me. The actual version for the clients isn't too bad, although maybe a little too many options. But, it does give quite a few that are good. I think if I were a consultant to a software company, my only advice would be to keep the nomenclature simple like Apple does. Look at Microsoft. Win95, Win98, then the Win98se. Then Win2000 followed by WinMe (or vice versa). So, off of a year and onto a whole new name. Then Win XP Pro -- which is for xperience. It became an icon, but still an entirely different name. Then Vista. Horrible. Finally back to numbers with Win7 and Win8.

Backup Assist has been Backup Assist for at least 11 years with different version numbers. AC, same way. But, Acronis, which should be Acronis Home and Acronis Server has to have True Image and a new Backup and Recovery (of course it is recovery. Jungle Disk does the same with Workstation and Server, both for enterprise use.

But, Acronis is great for clients and has fallen off on the server. As I stated, I had to pay Microsoft 259 dollars to get my VSS writers back. And, I had issues with the cloud as well.

If I am understanding you, I would say this is not true. Acronis, for example, you can click on any backup, and all the files are there in a tree format. Or you can mount the image, which is to this day, a feature I have only found with Acronis. It says archive, but I think that is a misnomer. To be able to mount the image with a drive letter so it is there until you unmount it is very cool. And, you have the exact replica with the same permissions.

The only backup I have seen that you can't see without the program is the SBS image backups, which are very good.

The other thing, while cloud backups should be incremental or dedupe (I prefer dedupe as you have one backup), I very much prefer full backups. I just don't like going to a Wednesday backup and needing to depend on five incremental backups between that one and the full backup.

The other irony is that NAS has the connotation of being rock solid. I like NAS, but I think of it as another safeguard. I really want backups on an internal drive along with backups to five external eSATA drives or using USB 3.0. Five for me, but at least two.

Backup Assist rocks! Period. It just works. It will backup SQL, SharePoint and Exchange if you have them, I had more options (not little tweak options) but more options for how you want to back up and where you want to back up. They continually update it, click on the new version in the right bottom corner and download and update. Never a bug, period. Emails from the owner with the new versions and why they are better. (just don't read his jokes). Support is out of control good. Unbelievably good. There are the same five techs for the past ten years. I can't say enough about Backup Assist. And, with the SQL module, to do transaction log backups every one minute of the day in less than a second is, well, ridiculous.

Forgot to mention. Your backup should be capable either with a disk or in the BIOS to be restored during bootup.

I did end up trialing then buying Backup Assist. Does seem easier to setup and use than Acronis. So I am not using SyncToy at all with my new setup, just 3 different Backup Assist backups. I'm happy with it.

Glad you like it. And the emails you receive once a month or so informing you of the new versions are very helpful. You will also see a confirmation of a new backup is helpful, just nice to know what it is doing. Upgrades are "rock solid." Just don't read the jokes in the emails. Apparently, those from Australia have lower standards for humor. But, I will trade that for the higher standard of women, lol. No offense to those in the U.S.

I would highly suggest purchasing the SQL Server backup module. The license is lifelong. And, you can back up SQL as often as once a minute, and it will back up the AC instance in less than that. You will always know that AC is backed up all day. I have mine set to five minutes. It takes no resources.

The thing I love about their support is you can call them, email them or using their forums. Unlike most forums where people like me give stupid answers, you can expect an answer rather quickly (24 hours) from one of the five or so tech support listed at the top.

Are you using VSS? Also, make sure you are backing up to at least two or three external drives. Hardware drives are the biggest point of failure and external drives are the most dangerous. Imagine crashing and then staring at that one Seagate or Fleagate external USB drive and tapping your fingers over and over hoping the drive is working or not corrupted.

Personally, I recommend putting an eSATA card in your PC, then adding four drives (they are dirt cheap) like an IcyDock (unfortunately I think I bought the last one in the world with four connections). It is similar to RAID but it is NOT but if you lose a drive, you can slap in another one. They are faster too, although USB 3.0 is pretty damned fast.

NAS is fine, but test it like crazy as I have experienced a few issues with network backups.

Oh, and the huge key is either use a partition or, better yet, a separate 1 to 4 TB drive in your computer. Then set it up to back up to there and move it to your external drives. I can only fit two, but the more the better. So, if you back up a drive a day times five days, then Backup Assist will move those after, and you have very fresh backups that you can restore faster than any other method. Just make SURE that the drive the backups are initially backed up to is not included in your backup. Not a good idea.

Backup Assist (for the money and even not for the money) in my opinion is the best backup software out there. One feature I find incredible is the wizard where you have several choices in the backup and then several choices in the destination including RSYNC where you can back up to your home. Just take my advice and if you do use RSYNC, you use Backup Assist and your RSYNC vendor's support. It's a little like SyncToy and offsite backups like iBackup (the best in my humble opinion) (wow! Bert humble), I get worried about syncing 'cause of the possibility of syncing the wrong way. But, I think I am paranoid about that.

Congratulations! Keep us posted.

Forgot to mention the initial start of the backup and the report itself is very helpful. For instance, if you are using VSS (hint, hint), it will let you know if VSS worked within the first two to three minutes. Of course, it won't work if it doesn't. The reports are incredible and make total sense.

Ummm....should I get paid by Backup Assist?

You sold me on it haha.

LOL.

No joke ha. I switched over to Hyper V instead of ESXi too because it's much cheaper than Backup Exec

I need some help eh some error messages on windows storage server r2 essentials.

Shoot me a message. Or we can do screen sharing.

When you guys reference "Backup Assist", are you talking about this product?

http://www.backupassist.com/index.html

Yes

Well this is coincidental. About 11 minutes 37 seconds after answering the question, I get an email from Backup Assist. They just attained Microsoft Partner Gold Application Development, which is no small feat.

Plus Backup Assist v7 is going to be a big step up. I wish I had stock in this company. They know how to do things right. But, they are likely too small to produce many dividends.

Thanks. Did they mention a release date for V7?

They didn't but you can download the beta version and play with it here.

Want another reason to keep good backups? How about Russian hackers encrypting your customer data files and then demanding a ransom to unencrypt. It just happened to an Australian doctor?s office.

Bert,
Buy now if you can while they are dirt cheap and easy... Put it away and forget about it for a good while and you may be able to retire sooner than you think... And don't forget to tweet it up... :-)

Good idea, Paul.