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Hello all,
Our practice has just purchased and had installed a windows 7 professional server based system with IT support. Currently we are playing around with the free three month Amazing Charts offer but know we will purchase it soon. I would like to have home access to my office system to make templates and see how the EMR works in my "spare time". We have logmein downloaded on all office PC's and laptops but our IT group is using it to tweak our hardware/software. My contact at the IT group told me not to mess with the logmein software as this is their means of getting into our system. What would be the best way to remotely access our office (not using logmein and hopefully a free means). I understand that Windows 7 Professional does have a remote desktop option in their software but I am somewhat afraid/intimidated about reconfiguring this windows 7 property.
Thank you.

It can be confusing to configure. So your "server" has Windows 7 or you have Windows Server 2008R2 and Win 7 Clients?

my invoice says Dell Power Edge T410 Server Windows 2008 R2 5 Cal.
The pc's and laptops have Windows 7 Professional

You should get them to add the RD Gateway role along with the RD Web Access too if they are not charging extra. If you had bought SBS Standard or Essentials instead, it would be pre-configured and cheaper too.

If they won't configure the server, you can follow this guide to enable Remote Desktop:
http://pdstechadvisor.com/guides/operating_system/windows7/remote_desktop.html

It can be confusing with the router setup. You should get the username and password from your IT guys.

I find many people having their hands tied as they can't even figure out how to add a user or share a folder in Server 2008R2. That's why I highly recommend Small Business Server Standard and Essentials and Multipoint over Server 2008R2. It's also a lot cheaper.

Thank you. I looked at the link you provided and will ask my IT guys to configure this setup if it seems appropriate for them. I don't want my new baby to crash and burn at my hands.

Easiest way given your setup is to have the IT group send you a LMI account on the machine[s] that you need onto. That is how we configure machines for client facilities that are using LMI - easy and fast.

The link I sent you is for the configuration of a Windows 7 Desktop, not the server so it shouldn't interfere with your "baby" lol.

Dr. AC,

I think you are wise to not do anything on the server. It should be nothing for your IT people to set up the RD Gateway as Sandeep says. Just curious, did the IT people recommend Server 2008 R2 over SBS 2011?

LogMeIn will work just fine, but there are advantages to RDC. I suppose I will never understand why more people don't use it. I don't think it is that difficult to configure. I still don't know how LMI stays in business with their free software. Sure, they have Pro, but it seems the only advantages are remote printing and file sharing.

RDP is simply faster. Barely faster as far as using it. But, while you are browsing to the LMI site and typing in your username and password, I am already logged into ten computers.

The other nice thing, which you can do anyway, but it just gets you used to using RDC to log into the other computers.

yes, the IT people did recommend the Server 2008 R2 over SBS 2011. As I recall, they did not feel I would be using the extra features contained in the SBS 2011. I did question them originally, as my postings of several months did have many on this board recommending the SBS.

Don't take me wrong, so what they are really saying is let's pay more for less features. Maybe you won't use Exchange and SharePoint right away, but it is nice to have. Again, SharePoint is the most least understood and underrated app Microsoft makes. SBS is also easier to use and certainly to set up if you ever need to install it by yourself.

Why were they against using Exchange. Some on the board don't think they need Exchange, because they are worried about setting it up. But, it is simply there. You just install Outlook on the desktops. It automatically connects to the server. Then you have HIPAA compliant intranet email and the ability to archive email, which will one day be required, plus it's a good thing anyway. But, back to the complexity of Exchange, which it isn't. You have IT. They could set it up.

Why were they against SharePoint? To have a LAN website (not a public website), with all of its advantages which I don't have time to list can be incredibly useful. You don't have to use it, but it would be there if you needed it.

Sorry, I don't mean to be critical. Certainly your OS is extremely good and will 'serve' you well. I guess it's just my passion for SBS.

And, like Sandeep mentioned, your RD Gateway is already set up and the SBS console makes it easier to manage.

Yea why did they recommend Server 2008R2 over Essentials if you had no need for Exchange or SharePoint? #1 Essentials is 10 times easier to configure. It's compatible with the home editions of Windows Operating Systems too. Sharing folders and files, adding users, etc. is very easy. Remote Web Access is setup automatically with a simple wizard. It comes pre-configured keeping your costs very low. O wait, now I see why lol.

25 Free CALs
25 CALS on Server 2008R2 = 5 + 20 x $60 = $1200

Have to say, I am very satisfied with SBS Essentials -- after going through much sturm und drang with Bert and Sandeep. I was using plain old windows 7 as the server on my office desktop, and I was actually very happy with that.

This new setup seems a lot more stable, but maybe I'm just fooling myself?
It is also faster, since the main drive is SSD.

I use Remote Desktop to my personal office machine to get to the office system from the outside-- it is very fast, and a lot more visually appealing than Logmein, which I also use sometimes. It has the advantage that you can use DragonNaturallySpeaking on the remote machine without having to buy the medical version.

I have yet to get Remote Web to work on the server, even though the router has the port forwarded and everything seems to be in order. Sandeep, Bert -- what is the advantage of the Remote Web Access over RD protocol? What I have seems to work just fine. I don't want to buy a new router unless there is something exceptional that I am missing.

Tom Duncan

Let me remote in and confirm the settings. It's the same protocol. The authentication method is different. RWA (RD Gateway) uses SSL and NTLM while RDC just uses NTLM. SSL is the same thing you see on many sites that have electronic checkout or any form of secure login. Remote Web Access also gives you access to every computer in the LAN in a friendly web interface. Rather than typing in the address. Also, you only need to open one port for the gateway to get access to all computers. It's also very useful if you have remote offices too.

SBS Essentials:



SBS Standard:

Tom,

Congrats! That is awesome. There are a couple of answers to your question and, as usual, Sandeep gave an excellent response. You will definitely need port 443 and 80 open. Running the wizard may get your up and running anyway. I was sleeping, but checked my email and caught your question. Samsung with email connected to Exchange.

As I have stated on other threads, when I remote into my clients at work I always use RDP. Just as with LMI, RWA makes you open a browser so if all you need is quick access, then RDP or RDC is the way to go. With RDC you can connect to multiple computers. In fact, just for fun tonight (no life I guess), I remoted to Room 1, Room 2, then remoted from room 2 to room 1 and have desktops open all over the place. Can't do that with LMI or RWA at least I don't think you can with LMI. The other nice thing about RDC is soon when you click on the icon to bring up the app, all of your computers will be listed in a dropdown box. So, you can choose in seconds: Initiating, secure, configuring remote (literally four seconds). If RDC is on your start menu, hovering over it will bring a window out to the right with all of your computers listed. So, that is cool.

Now the advantages to RWA. I just set up Essentials on my VM (just to help you ), but the only thing, ironically, I haven't played with is RWA. One thing Microsoft added to RWA is the ability for the end user to configure the site. Also, and a big advantage over RDP is that initially you have to put maybe five settings into the RD Client on the remote machine. It then remembers the username and password, and they can log right in. But, you have to show each person (on a computer in your office) how to configure it. I am talking simple configuration -- just putting like putting the address in the RD Gateway. server_name.publicdomainname, e.g. tomsserver.tomastoria.com. The gateway is what allows all the remote clients to direct to the server then onto the clients. Prior to this, you had to port forward, then port forward, etc. But, I digress. So, anyway, you have to show them what boxes to check.

But, with RWA, once you have your domain name and cert (or they can accept without a cert from their end), you only have to teach them one website address.

For us, it is https://server_name.riverview.org/remote (different in essentials. It's best to use I.E. due to Active X. Microsoft likes to make you use their products, but you can use others. But, to email them at their home email address with your URL, all they have to do is click on it, and they are on RWA. Once there, they can access SharePoint for Standard, OWA and their computers. By the way, the "s" on http(s) is the 443 port.

Before RDC started using SSL onto of its protocol, RWW was the most secure connection available. Also, as the admin, you have access to ALL computers, but you can choose which computers each person can access in the server properties under remote access or use Group Policy.

This is where good passwords come into play. If I listed my actual address above anyone could type it in and get to the login screen. But, if you don't use "admin" as your username and have a very strong password for the server, then you are all set.

By the way, everyone is different, but I do not let my staff choose their password. First, they choose weak ones, although you can force them to choose harder ones with group policy, but if they forget it, you have to reset it, plus you need to write them down to remember. I give them all passwords using catch phrases, etc. like gBY3brwtDs. This would be goodByeYellow3brickroadswheretheDogs so I can remember it, and they as well. This is my Elton John password. Sorry, digressing again. By the way, that would take many centuries for brute force to work. If you add characters, it is harder to crack. Also, it is NOT my password.

One thing I recall a Microsoft MVP once told me that I found funny and reassuring when we were talking security. He said,

"Is there someone out there that can hack into your computer?" Yes.
"is there someone out there that wants to hack into your computer?" Probably not.

Again, you have to see RWA to appreciate it, but it can definitely wait.

http://social.technet.microsoft.com....remote-web-access-deployment-guide.aspx

Bert-Sandeep

Thanks again for all the help. I don't quite understand your schedules; Sandeep offers to remote in, which I would dearly love, but it needs to be done sometime when we can both connect. It seems like neither of you ever sleep!
Should I set up an appointment for a remote-in time, or should I just hope that if I send a private message Sandeep is always listening and responds immediately?

Anyway, I have no need to log into any office client other than the one in my private office (which is connected by RD). And no one else in the office needs to remote in -- I really don't want them "working from home." That seems like a potential world of hurt.

Tom Duncan

I would just PM him and set up a time. If you catch him randomly on, then PM him. I would do it this evening, but while I could probably figure it out, Sandeep is far better than I.

You can restrict who has remote access by simply unchecking a box.

Actually right now, they could potentially access your computer the same way you do with the external IP.

Above I said server properties. I meant computer properties. One of the things I didn't like about WIN 7 (still don't to some degree) was the fact that there seems to be 100 ways to get to the same place.

One way is Start | Computer | Right click | Properties | (and this is where WIN 7 is so silly. Under Control Panel Home, three of the four choices bring you to the same window only with a different tab opened.

So, see the picture where you add or remove users from RDC.

Nice Bert.

SBS Essentials Dashboard

It's pretty simple to add/remove what computers a user can access. By default, standard users only have access to the computer you set them up with when you joined the computers to the domain. Domain admins have access to all computers on the domain.

Also, as you can see from above controlling permissions is also very easy for shared folders. So you don't have to put everyone in the share permissions. You can even completely block access to the Remote Web Access part. These are some of the main reasons to get Essentials over Windows 7.

I'll work on that.
Right now, everything going fine, and staff is trustworthy.
Refinements will be made when I am fully integrated with what I have already done!

Tom

I haven't even done it for the most part. Plus, I can't get them to log in remotely. They won't try.

Plus, they are at work all day any way.

Yea, that's true. Go at your own pace. PM me if you want to open port 443. Could be very well that your ISP blocks it.

SBS server Remote Workspace is the fastest way to remote into the office. But it does not work on a couple of my office computers and for those I use JumpDesktop - which is lot faster than LogmeIn and you can also use from iOS devices like iPad and iPhone and also Mac.

LogmeIn is my 3rd backup - if RWA and JumpDesktop do not work because it is very slow and graphics are very poor.

JumpDesktop is free on Windows machines but costs 29.99 for Mac app and 14.99 for iOS app and works through your gmail account. Much faster than LMI.

My IT company did see the light and decided it would be easier for me to use Logmein once they extended me an invitation, rather than reconfigure my server to allow remote access. So far the Logmein is working great this weekend as I play with many of the features of AC.

Glad to hear it - really is the easiest way given your existing setup. Enjoy.

Glad to hear it as well.

Is it true that SBS can only access 8GB of RAM?

Looks like the more recent version can address much more than 8GB. This thread has convinced me to install SBS.

SBS 2008 - SBS 2011 can access all the RAM you can give it.

Do note that SBS 2011, the latest version to be sold through December, is also the last version. Small Business Server is being discontinued.

HOWEVER, SBS 2011 will enjoy support all the way to the year 2020. So there is nothing wrong with going that route.

JamesNT

I always hate to correct someone, but it's probably best that the info is correct.

SBS 2008 can only use 32 GB.

This is a good reference.

Bert's right. SBS typically has the same RAM limit as the Standard Version of the Server. SBS 2011/Server 2008R2 Standard both have 32GB limits. Same was true for SBS 2008/Server 2008.

You're thinking of Server 2008 Foundation which had an 8GB RAM limit. It's not really part of the SBS line.

If you do not require SharePoint or Exchange, SBS 2011 Essentials may be better suited to your needs. On SBS Standard, high amounts of RAM make sense because it will utilize it all. With SBS Essentials, it probably idles around 2-3GB. I'd say 12GB is more than enough for Essentials. 16GB is good for standard. Anything more would be better.

Everything is moving to the cloud, including servers...and AC: http://amazingcharts.com/services/hosting/

And for good reason.

Some folks have an interest in legacy "solutions" (hint: they get paid to support them), but the reality is that our future (quickly becoming our present) rests in the cloud.

Consider your mistake a learning opportunity.

Move forward,

Marlene

Marlene makes a valid point. But the cloud won't solve all of your problems.

Many things are moving to the cloud. Microsoft Office, Amazing Charts, File Storage, etc. There are some added costs you should be aware of if going with the Cloud. For instance, AC charges something like 100/user or $300 for 5 per month. Pricing is on the site. These costs can add up very quickly depending on the size of the practice. These are the costs on top of the base AC License.

Office 365 is supposed to replace Office 2010. UpDox for faxes etc. All of these are subscription based services. You'll notice that in order to be completely on the cloud, you'll have to be using a mix of services from various providers since they don't provide a turn key solution for all your computing needs. (Unless you're Indy.) If AC was all you needed to get things done, life would be very easy.

When you start utilizing all of these cloud services, you'll need to get additional bandwith to support all of these connections. You'll have to use various techniques like compression to optimize bandwith usage. While it takes a few seconds to drag and drop a 20MB PDF to your II, it would take several minutes uploading it over the internet.

The other issue is reliability. While the vendor may have 99.9% uptime, that doesn't mean you will. If you're using a basic DSL line or cable (Roadrunner, etc.), your connection can go down and their response times are less than impressive (assuming they are available in your area). You'll likely have to get a T1 line, which is 300-400 per month in order to have the desired reliability. Even if the Internet is down for an hour, you can't do anything. (Getting an issue resolved in an hour with Time Warner would be nothing short of magic.) But you can't just use the T1 line as it's only 1.5 megabits symmetric (a little under 200 kb/s). You'll need to invest in a dual WAN router and use a cable connection in conjunction with that T1 line. If you're not purely cloud, you'll still need to invest in a legitmate network with the switch, wiring, etc. Which is the majority of the cost in most cases.

The other downside of cloud is that you don't own anything. Contract can be cancelled at anytime and your data could be held hostage. While I haven't conducted any long term studies, it should be apparent that cloud is the more expensive long run solution but keeps initial costs low.

Onsite solutions have many potential problems as well.

With onsite solutions, you are at the mercy of your IT guy assuming you have limited knowledge of computers and networking.

Many of the reported issues with IT can be boiled down to an improper network setup. Often times to cut on costs, cheaper hardware/computers are used instead of the more robust, enterprise hardware. I'm not saying you need to spend $1000 dollars on some Cisco Router, but that $30 Netgear router might have a little trouble when you have 5-10 computers bouncing data back and forth.

While WiFi is great and simple, it's just not designed for applications that require continuous access to the network and shared files. It's a pretty mature technology and the downsides are known. Connection drops, high latency, slower speeds. Going wired will cost you quite a bit but you'll have way less headaches down the line. Cisco Small Business switches are a good example of what you should be looking at for your office. Priced a little bit higher than consumer grade products but much less than the full enterprise products.

We always have the P2P vs Server debate, but having a good network trumps that issue. If I had to decide between P2P with a wired gigabit switch and server with a shoddy network (WiFi, daisy chained switches, etc.), I'd choose the P2P with wired gigabit network any day.

The issues with onsite are divided into 2 categories, hardware and software. Hardware failures are inevitable but can be mitigated by buying higher quality computers (e.g. Lenovo or Intel). These issues exist regardless of whether you use Cloud or onsite.

Now software is the one that irritates people the most. Be it viruses or whatever. These are also avoidable. I'm sure those of you that have used cloud services. You have access to a very very locked down version of the application you're trying to use. They're not trying to restrict your freedom intentionally, it's just less of headache for them so you can't mess something up. Giving users Administrator privileges allows them to install software, viruses, etc. They have the ability to mess things up. You can either train your staff to be responsible or lock down their workstations. The choice is yours.

If you have daily problems, you should probably hire a new IT guy, maybe get an IT Professional instead. Or maybe ask a colleague about their IT person. Make sure it's not someone who will nickel and dime you for every call. I.e. some of the people I support don't even know how to make a shortcut or choose the printer or browse to the database. I'm not gonna charge them to make a shortcut on their desktop for 2 minutes. But some will.

Things should more less run fluidly if things are setup properly from the beginning. Pretty much install it and don't mess with it. Replace hardware (at least the server) every 3-5 years even if they are working to avoid possible future down time. Dell and Lenovo have leasing options or you can make small monthly payments until the server is paid off.

Interesting discussion.

But seems to me it is all a matter of scale.
When I started with computers in medicine it was with one machine running Applesoft (1979).
Later, in a different office, it was 2 machines running Win95.
Now, it is about 8 or 9 running on SBS-Essentials.
Always small scale, always works with relatively inexpensive equipment

Now, these enterprise-level setups that Sandeep is talking about are for practices of several doctors in multiple locations, I think. I can't see what the extra investment in all that IT infrastructure would gain me in my simple setup. And I really can't understand what seems to be a dyseconomyof scale with big clinics -- the doctors can only see so many patients, and no one else is making any money (except maybe lab and x-ray) -- so all that IT overhead, along with all the administrative overhead is just more chunks taken out of the aready over-subscribed "reimbursement" -- scheduled to drop another 30% after January.

As for the cloud -- what a headache. If something stops working, it becomes a scramble to figure out whether it is your router, your internet gateway, the phone service or the cloud server. And no one will admit they are the problem.

At least for a small practice, far from a big city, dependent on DSL which is fairly reliable, the only sensible thing is in-house AC with an in-house billing program (some day, perhaps, AC will be that billing program) and UpDox for fax access.

I could wish for tighter integration with UpDox, for the "clearinghouses" to be part of AC, for the hospital to communicate directly with my office -- but it runs ok as it is.

I keep reading Sandeep's posts, and I don't see the enterprise systems...

Lol a $200 Cisco Small Business Switch hardly qualifies as enterprise hardware. The point I was trying to get at is that there is a lot of affordable equipment that is a step above consumer-grade (home usage) and a step below enterprise grade.

The main point was get a solid wired network regardless of the "server" implementation you select, be it Windows 7 or SBS 2011. Many of the headaches and speed issues will simply disappear.

I wasn't really talking about advanced server systems.

Bert and Sandeep are correct. SBS 2008 - 2011 are limited to 32G of RAM. I was playing around with Windows Server 2012 DATACENTER Edition when I wrote that post. . .

My apologies for having my mind elsewhere.

JamesNT