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Hello all,
We are in the process of beginning our three month trial with Amazing Charts and had several questions. Our current computer system is a dinosaur as is my knowledge on how to upgrade this.
I did speak with a Dell salesman who recommended the following server, etc. We have not yet decided on the desktop/laptops for our exam rooms in our two physician internal medicine group.
1) How does this server recommendation sound? We do want more memory than we need and speed.
2) Not sure if the computer should be 32 vs 64 bit
3) Anyone know of a good and reasonable installer in the New Jersey area.

PowerEdge T410 Chassis w/ up to 6 Hot-Plug Hard Drives,LCD Diagnostics

12GB Memory (3x4GB), 1333MHz Dual Rank RDIMMs for 1 Processor LV

Intel XeonE5620 2.4Ghz, 12M Cache,Turbo, HT, 1066MHz Max Mem

T410 Heat Sync 1P

No Second Processor

HD Multi-Select

PERC6i SAS RAID Controller Internal with Battery

SAS, PERC 6/iR Cable, T410

Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1, Standard Edition, Includes 5 CALS
Baseboard Management Controller

Optical Cable T410

16X DVD ROM,SATA, INTERNAL
Electronic System Documentation and OpenManage DVD Kit

RAID 5 for PERC6i/H700 Controllers

Power Supply, Redundant, 580W

Power Cord, NEMA 5-15P to C13, 15 amp, wall plug, 10 feet / 3 meter

Power Cord, NEMA 5-15P to C13, 15 amp, wall plug, 10 feet / 3 meter

Dell Hardware Limited Warranty Plus On Site Service Initial Year
1TB 7.2K RPM SATA 3.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive
1TB 7.2K RPM SATA 3.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive
1TB 7.2K RPM SATA 3.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive
1TB 7.2K RPM SATA 3.5in Hot-plug Hard Drive
5-pack of Windows Server 2008 User CALs (Standard or Enterprise)
Dell E Series E170S, Standard, 17in Viewable Image Size, VGA Only, CLIENT/ENT
Optical Mouse, Two Buttons, USB, Black
Dell QuietKey Keyboard, No Hot Keys, English, No Palmrest, ESG
* -DISCOUNT/COUPON APPL
Elec Dwnld only OLP WINRMTDSKTPSRVCSCAL 2008R2 SNGL NL USRCAL $163.98

Subtotal: $4,608.98
Shipping & Handling: $0.00
Tax: $322.64
Environmental Disposal Fee: $0.00
Total Price w/Discounts: $4,931.62

Any and all recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

Check out this pose:
Server discussion
Sandeep has an entire posting on servers as well, you can find him in that post

DrAC (very appropriate name, by the way): would you mind sharing your number of providers and number of client machines you expect to use?

1) You'll want to hold off until you establish the number of workstations as Jon (JBS) pointed out. If you're planning to use thin clients, then that server you listed above will not suffice. It would also help to have an idea of the number of workstations/users.

2) 64 bit all the way. No reason to use 32 bit anymore. If you use 32 bit, then you can only use 4GB of RAM.

3) Not sure.

Also, you might want to get Small Business Server 2011 instead. You get a lot more features for the money. Onsite email solutions (Exchange), SharePoint. You can find the server recommendation thread here: http://amazingcharts.com/ub/ubbthreads.php/topics/40565/Server_Hardware_Recommendation#Post40565

We will have 9 work stations- 5 will be examination rooms and 4 will be secretarial. May also need to have 1-2 tablets for my nurses to carry around. Does the recommended server meet our requirements? Thanks again.

If you take a look at the server recommendation thread, you're paying about two times as much as you should. Do you have any desire for onsite email or Sharepoint?

I've read Sandeep's recommended server ingredients. Having me construct this would be like asking me to perform a whipple procedure. Would a company like Dell provide an "equivalent" server if given the link to Sandeep's Rolls Royce?

If onsite email and sharepoint save me time and money, I'm all for them

They do, it's the T110.

• PowerEdge T110 II Chassis with Cabled 4x3.5 Hard Drives
• Intel? Xeon? E3-1230 3.20 GHz, 8M Cache, Turbo, Quad Core/8T (80W)
• 16GB Memory (4x4GB), 1333MHz, Dual Ranked UDIMM
• Microsoft? Small Business Server 2011 Essentials, Factory Installed
• Add-in H200 (SAS/SATA Controller), 4/6 Hard Drives - RAID 10
• PERC H200 Adapter Internal RAID Controller for 3.5 HDDs
• SAS 6Gbps HBA External Cntrl
• 500GB 7.2K RPM SATA 3.5in Cabled Hard Drive X 4
• On-Board Single Gigabit Network Adapter
• NEMA 5-15P to C13 Wall Plug, 125 Volt, 15 AMP, 10 Feet (3m), Power Cord

Should be around ~$2300. See less than half. May not want to talk to that Dell guy next time...

That's up to you ha. How do you handle email now?

Check out this thread on the benefits of SharePoint

Wow. Not another server configuration question. First, while AC can run on P2P quite easily, we should all agree this question is about a server and not get into a P2P vs Client/Server discussion. There are plenty on the board.

Right off, I would fire your Dell salesman if you asked him/her about 32-bit vs 64-bit, and the salesman recommended 12GB of RAM. If you use 32-bit OS, you will lose 8GB of memory as 32-bit can only use 4GB and, even then, doesn't use all of the 4GB. It is a no brainer anyway. To spend that much money for a 32-bit system puts you in the dinosaur area before you turn it on. I would definitely add another stick of RAM and get 4 X 4GBs. If you move up in SQL, not something that is easy to do now, but if you do upgrade to a SQL Server that can use unlimited memory, the more memory the better.

Are you completely set on Windows Server 2008 R2? Small Business Server makes much more sense, gives you more flexibility, e.g. RWA, SharePoint and Exchange. If you were to get the 2008 premium version, you get Windows Server 2008 Standard free anyway. But SBS 2011 Standard and Essentials is already out. So, why go with Windows Server 2008 R2 and, once again, be back in Jurassic Park, since you can get to 2011?

What do you mean by installer? Dell will build it and install the OS. Or are you talking about the network? I would go with someone inexpensive like a college student to set up the modem, router/firewall and switch along with running the cables. For setting up the overall network as far as the OS and domain, you would be better off with a MCITP. I am sure you can Google that and get a Microsoft MVP to help you.

May want to consider moving to a three year warranty as you are going to own it for at least that. Also consider adding another hard drive as a hot spare for better redundancy.

As a side note on the T110. If you know how to add memory, you can save a couple hundred bucks adding that 8GB yourself. They charge $178 for that additional 8GB. It's about $70 for 8GB at most places. Also, I don't think it comes with a redundant PSU.

SBS Essentials isn't that difficult to setup. You can find the instructional videos down below.

For networking, just run a few lines of CAT6 cable to each room. Always put extra. You can find college kids that can do this. It's low voltage wiring, so it's pretty easy to run. A nice gigabit switch too. I'll say 24 port just to be safe.

Additional things you'll want to get:

• UPS as backup power for a safe shutdown
• External Hard Drive for backups

Wow- glad I've asked these questions because his recomendations were definitely less than adequate. When you call Dell and ask for a business "expert" salesman, you never know who you are going to get. Great suggestion regarding having a college student set up the network.

Yea. You would've payed more than double for less features and a slower server. It would take 2 E5620 CPUs to beat one E3-1230, less RAM, Server 2008R2 which has to be configured manually, onboard RAID, etc. You would've probably had to buy extra client access licenses (CALs) on top of that with Server 2008R2. All of that for a wonderful 5K price tag when you get better stuff with a 2.3K price tag. The decision is yours

In my opinion, you do not need an MVP to set up SBS Essentials. SBS Standard, probably, but not essentials. There's a video outlining the process in my signature.

I don't think they sell SBS 2008 Premium, at least not through Dell anymore. You would get Server 2008 instead of Server 2008R2. SBS 2011 Essentials and Standard are the choices. It doesn't seem like you're interested in onsite Exchange (email). Also, SBS Standard requires all of your workstations would need to be Win 7/Vista/XP Professional editions as well as CALs for each user/device. It would also require a domain name and SSL certificate to be used effectively. Thus, SBS Essentials seems like the best choice for you.

SBS Essentials is simple, effective, and easy to manage. You can use the premium add-on with Essentials as well. It's just SQL Workgroup and Server 2008R2. Buy the add-on later if you should need it.

Agreed. When I want to see Windows Server 2008 R2, I go to the hospital or somewhere that is running 5,000 computers needing multiple domain controllers and servers, etc. WS 2008R2 is overkill for a Small Business where the SBS is set up for a few computers and up to 75. Personally, I think Bill Gates must have been at a party when he came up with the idea. He just made it so inexpensive and gave to many things away for free. I can just hear him now, "What was I thinking? An Exchange Server, SharePoint, Remote Web Access? And, who came up with those wizards so all my MCITPs aren't making money? Oh well, at least I didn't give them a free public SSL certificate."

Hi DrAC,

I will now hand you over to Sandeep who knows more about servers than I do about a wireless mouse.

By the way, once you purchase a Dell for business, they set you up with a business team that you can reach practically instantly. Their support is much better than their sales people.

One nice tip. If you configure it on the Internet and get a price. Then call a sales rep and go through it with them just to be sure. Then right when you go to buy it, ask for a discount. I have always gotten $200 to $300.

Ha, thanks Bert.

I also just noticed that Dell charges $250 per 500GB drive. You can buy them for $100 each... So if you add the RAM and Hard Drives yourself, you can knock off about 700-800 bucks.

Not to be condescending, but adding the hard drives and especially the RAM is not very hard. Although, you do need to get the RAM in the correct slots, e.g. it's 1,3,2,4, etc. It's shown very clearly in the online guide. Just Google online manual Dell T410.

And, by the way, you have to take a class to learn about wireless mice. Very difficult.

To make it easy, latest R2 is 64-bit only. But, don't let anyone tell you that software is an issue. It is not. Three years no problems with software. Especially AC

Uhh...Bert, you need to go back and read some of those posts about versions 6.04 - 6.09.

John,

You don't understand. Bert uses Jedi mind control over software. It was only mere mortals who had problems with 6.0.9. Like me.

(Actually I think Bert stayed with v5 during that time of turmoil.)

Gene

Exactly. Bert knows not of those versions.

Sandeep, on the other hand, uses the Force on hardware (especially servers.)

Gene

I didn't have any problems with 6.0.9. The hardware acceleration fix was my idea lol.

There's a version 6?

Actually for SBS Essentials a RAID 1 will do just fine. There's not a lot of I/O going on with Essentials. It's just running AD, SQL Express, and File Storage. Maybe a RAID 1 of 2X1TB drives. Should be much cheaper than a RAID 10 of 4 500GB drives. Probably only need 8GB of RAM too.

For SBS Standard, I'd go RAID 5 or 10 (10 preferred). That has a lot of things going on with SQL, Exchange, SharePoint, AD, and File Storage. Given how cheap SSDs are now. I'd probably do a double RAID 1 instead of a single RAID 10. RAID 1 of 128GB Crucial M4s (OS+Database) and RAID 1 of 1TB WD RE4 (File Storage, Imported Items). That'd be so fast.

The power of RAID is insignificant compared to the power of the Force. Crashed hard drives can be willed back to life if the Jedi is strong with the force and well trained.

For those who are not, listen to Sandeep

Those Jedis charge a couple thousand bucks.

Thus is the way of the force. Else, follow Sandeep's recommendation.

But Sandeep, we are all rich doctors, what's a couple thousand bucks

Even so, if you're the richest doctor around, there's no guarantee that you'll get back all of your data.

I forgot Sandeep, you are strong in the way of the tech. Thusly, a weak translation of my prior posting

If money = rich
Then "Risk spending but not guaranteeing big bucks to fix hard drive"
Else "follow Sandeep's recommendation"

Dell got back to me and incorporated some of your suggestions. Does this sound like a reasonable/faster server that would better meet my needs? ?Thank you for your help

1 PowerEdge T110 II Chassis with Cabled 3.5 Hard Drives
331-2391
1 Shipping Material, PowerEdge T110 II
317-2022
1 Memory for 1CPU Platform
317-6871
1 16GB Memory (4x4GB), 1333MHz, Dual Ranked UDIMM
317-6873
1 Intel Xeon E3-1230 3.20 GHz, 8M Cache, Turbo, Quad Core/8T (80W)
330-5552
1 PowerEdge T110 Heatsink
341-4158
1 HD Multi-Select
342-0729
1 PERC H200 Adapter RAID Controller
331-2398
1 H200 CBL, PowerEdge T110II for 3.5 Hard Drives
421-6843
1 MICROSOFT Small Business Server 2011 Essentials, Factory Installed
313-7919
1 Baseboard Management Controller
313-9100
1 16X DVD-ROM,SATA, INTERNAL
331-2399
1 ODD Cable, PowerEdge T110II
331-2505
1 Electronic System Documentation and OpenManage DVD Kit
331-2619
1 Add-in SAS6iR or H200 (SAS/ SATA Controller), 4/6 Hard Drives - RAID 10
935-9418
1 Dell Hardware Limited Warranty Plus On Site Service Extended Year
931-5387
1 Dell Hardware Limited Warranty Plus On Site Service Initial Year
951-2832
1 ProSupport: Next Business Day Onsite Service After Problem Diagnosis, 2 Year Extended
954-9950
1 ProSupport: Next Business Day Onsite Service After Problem Diagnosis, Initial Year
989-3439
1 Thank you choosing Dell ProSupport. For tech support, visit http://support.dell.com/ProSupport or call 1-800-945-3355
951-2852
1 ProSupport: 7x24 HW / SW Tech Support and Assistance, 3 Year
900-9997
1 On-Site Installation Declined
926-2979
1 Proactive Maintenance Service Declined
421-6842 1 Microsoft Small Business Server 2011 Essentials with Media
341-9247 1 500GB 7.2k RPM Serial ATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
341-9247 1 500GB 7.2k RPM Serial ATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
341-9247 1 500GB 7.2k RPM Serial ATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
341-9247 1 500GB 7.2k RPM Serial ATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
430-2008 1 On Board network Adapter
310-8509 1 Power Cord, NEMA 5-15P to C13, 15 amp, wall plug, 10 feet / 3 meter
331-0846 1 Optical Mouse, Two Buttons, USB, Black
331-2254 1 Dell QuietKey Keyboard, No Hot Keys, English, No Palmrest, ESG
* -DISCOUNT/COUPON APPL
Subtotal: $2,164.00
Shipping & Handling: $0.00
Tax: $151.47
Environmental Disposal Fee: $0.00
Total Price w/Discounts: $2,315.47

Lol they incorporated all of them. Good job. Isn't that a much better price?

Suggestion 1 (Major Savings):
It'll probably be more cost effective to get a RAID 1 of 1TB Drives. Then again, $5000 didn't seem to bother you, so whatever you want.
-RAID 10 4 X 500GB = 1TB Usable Capacity (High Write Speed, High Read Speed) $250 X 4 = $1000 (Bear in mind these drives only cost about $100 on Amazon, if it's $100 for the consumer, Dell's profit margin must be massive)
-RAID 1 2 X 1TB Drives = 1TB Usable Capacity (Read Speed Boost, Write ~ Single Hard Drive) $290 X 2 = $580 (Bear in mind these drives only cost about $120 on Amazon)

SBS Essentials isn't that intensive so just saying if you want to, you can easily get 2 X 1TB drives. It should also be apparent, a big chunk of the price comes from here. Should be around $1700. Use the savings to get a UPS (backup battery) and an external hard drive. Those will be more useful.

Suggestion 2:
You might want to get a DVD-RW/Burner instead of the reader ("1 16X DVD-ROM,SATA, INTERNAL"). It's about $20 extra, but you never know if you might need to burn a DVD on the server. Just something useful to have. Maybe for backups or something.

Suggestion 3:
Make sure you get the one with the Intel? Xeon? E3-1230v2, slightly faster than the V1 and uses less power. Same price.

Suggestion 4:
Also, don't forget to pick up an external hard drive (for backups) and UPS.

Suggestion 5:
Add RAM yourself, it's a simple as putting a card in a slot. Takes about 5 minutes max or you can pay $180. Your choice.

As a side note, I mentioned this to you in a PM, but the H200 controller does not have a cache or a BBU. You can enable caching, I think, for a performance boost, but a power failure or system failure could result in data corruption. Running a RAID 10 on it might be too much.

This also lacks a redundant power supply.