Home Forums Discussions Problems remove fired employees

How do you completely remove inactive users from the AC system. There are employees in there that were fired and deactivated. Their names and data are still in the AC system.?
nate

Sorry, but they cannot be completely removed. Here is one of the latest discussions about this.

They cannot be completely removed as they are part of the medical record (and audit log). You can only deactivate them.

How could a non-licensed med tech be a formal part of the medical record? They are not the provider, therefore there is no requirement that they can't be removed from the system. Is it more of a programming issue than a med-legal issue? Their names are no-where on or in the formal medical record. We as consumers of this soft-ware should be able to make a legitament suggestion to the programers. If it too hard to rewrite code, then just say that. We can accept that more than, they just can't be removed.

Nate

nateb,

The employees may not be the provider, but they may be the person who entered/edited the information.

It's not a matter of it being to hard too rewrite the code. It's a matter that there are 100 other users of Amazing Charts that pay just as much money as you do who disagree with you in that they want that audit trail to see exactly who is doing what to their information.

Democracy in action.

JamesNT

They can write notes, such as lab results or telephone messages. If they are removed, the database will now have a note without a crucial identifier (the sender.) I would imagine this should make the system crash.

If this could be worked out, in court the lawyer asks "Who performed and recorded the lab?" and you are unable to identify the person. I would imagine it would then make the entire medical record suspect and make it much more difficult to defend your case. If you can delete persons, how else can you alter the record or if you are using a system so unreliable as to loose the note sender how can we rely on it.

Potentially that would then open up potential lawsuits for AC and make those who ARE using it very nervous to know they have a product that would put them at a legal disadvantage. Or at least so it would seem to me.

I am definitely NOT in the medical profession, but came upon this fantastic user board while helping my wife's boss (doctor) start with AC.

He's also my doctor (cardiologist) and they are currently on all paper charts. I've asked my wife, and she said that whoever enters information into the paper chart initials their entry (licensed or not). So, as far as I know, there were at least a handful of employees who must have entered information on me over the last 20+ years that have long since terminated. But, I would think that if you go into my chart, every entry is still there along with their initials. I would think this is a good audit trail, at least. What is being suggested, which is to totally remove the user from AC, is equivalently "erasing" the initials from my chart. As I've said, I am NOT in the medical profession, but I would think that erasing the initials of the employee that entered the information is NOT a good thing, even if the information is retained. Also, my wife thought that "white out" on a medical chart is not an acceptable practice. I guess I'm coming from someone that has only seen paper charts... so far... [my 1/2 cent from an outside observer]

Think of it as benefit that was not previously available with paper charts. You can tell exactly who is modifying what field. AC already designates certain permissions to different levels of employees allowing them to modify specific things. Logs just let you find out if a chart was altered or accessed by someone who shouldn't be altering/accessing it.

Having those records could prove useful in a trial. It seems to bother you quite a bit. Is there a particular reason?

It doesn't matter if it is a monkey who wrote the data. You can't take it out. Now, I know some damn good medical monkeys. There needs to be an audit trail, and I am sure everyone has seen it.

Not a complete SQL expert, but there are tables and fields with a doctor's initials and the sentence and the monkey's initials and the sentence. It's pretty difficult to take out the whole thing without screwing up the database.

Then you have who is a non-licensed med tech and just a med tech. And, what is licensed and what is not as far as what data should stay in.

All entries into the database has to be permanent. I can remote into your computer and delete and progress note you want or change your 105.0 to 100.5. But, if your secretary sent a copy of the records without your knowledge and there is that 100.5 entry after the other, your whole career is down the drain.

So I think that a strong case has been presented that users should never be completely removed from the system. Nate (and others)...is there some place that you keep seeing these users that is an issue? If so, perhaps you could request that they not show up in that particular spot. I think that just about the only place I see them is in user configuration in the admin area, and I am rarely there.

The only area I find is a nuisance is in templates. All their templates are still there, it's a PITA to remove them. Other than that I agree there is no real issue that I see. And I am not in templates that often.

Thank yall for the responses. All I needed was a logical explanation. Now I have one.
I now have more of a personal reason to remove them, they turned out to be not very good employees. I'm the idiot that hired them. It keeps reminding me I'm a better physician than an office manager.

Nate

Nate,
Thanks for posting back. Rest assured that you are not alone with names that are unpleasant reminders in your list of inactivated employees. Keep in mind that while you cannot completely delete them, you can change their names. So if it makes you feel more comfortable, change the user name to "A. Thief" or "Best Forgotten", and maybe the list will make you want to smile rather than beat yourself up.
You may want to be a little selective, since (as described above)in case of a suit, a lawyer may be looking at those user names someday.

Thanx Jon,
Hey my brother-in-law is on the Baltimoe city counsel. If you get a parking ticket give me a call.
Nate

I like that, Nate. You may be in Georgia, but it sounds like you are quite familiar with the way we do politics in Baltimore.

I understand why you can't erase inactive users, but why do they have to be so "in your face"? Currently when you try to edit a user you have to scroll down through a list of active and inactive employees. It is kind of driving down a very bumpy memory lane. There are some names in there that literally give me heartburn just reading them. If there was an option to only see the active users this would not be an issue... I would vote for that.

That's a programming issue that can be easily fixed. Maybe throw it on the wish list.

As a general rule, if it takes you a long time to scroll through your list of fired employees, I don't want to work for you...