Home Forums Discussions General Discussion Synchronization

Bert, we appreciate you going the extra mile to answer these bothersome questions for us all. Bert is like a "Mythbuster" or something!

Guys,
Thanks very much for all your input and attention to these painful questions of mine.

But one last time if you know, does hitting that button now create a mirrored compiled copy of what is on both machines, onto both machines? So instead of all this cutting and pasting the first time around or any time subsequent for that matter, can we all simply hit the button once before we leave (now laptop has mirrored copy of what is the main machine) and then simply hit it again upon return to again update both machines as to what happened in eachother's absence? Is it compiling and mirroring on "both" harddrives each and everytime? OR, is it only making a compiled complete version back to the main server machine, so then we do need to go thru all this cut and paste stuff from server to laptop each and everytime we want to give the laptop the most up to date version of the main database???

Again, what I would love to have is the mirror version to once again take us average users (the human error factor) out of the equation. I get the feeling this is what is happening but in the vaccum of info it is hard to know for sure....

Again thanks much,
Paul

Paul,

I think you are making this way too hard First, when you sync, you never have to hit the button twice. When you click on sync, it syncs both databases so they are the same. It works in both directions. (more specifics on this later).

There is a very good detailed manual in the wiki. Let me summarize here.

All that occurs is you have the main computer in the office, aka "Server." There is a database in your laptop, aka "Remote."

Connect to the laptop in whatever way you do, i.e. directly or through network, click on the sync button and browse to the remote's AmazingCharts.mdb database. It's that simple. It would need to be shared.

Now, at this point, you have two selections which basically answers your question. The default setting is:

Add remote updates to existing database.

This as the name implies will add any data you entered into the remote computer to the server. This is not helpful if ANY data was entered to the server computer while you were gone. I wouldn't see much use for this.

You can also click the next option, which is:

Merge two distinct databases.

This is what you are basically referrint to. Click on this radio button, press sync and at the end of the process you will have two identical databases.

What you may want to consider doing is go to any computer on your network other than the server. Change the path of that AC from the server's (real) database, and let it browse to the database in the AC folder on that computer, i.e. a database which does not have any real data. Copy that folder somewhere on your desktop or wherever. At that point, you will have two identical folders, the one in your C:\Program Files\Amazing Charts and the folder you copied. Enter a note or data into the database on C:\Program Files. Then change your path to the other folder and write some notes or add some patients. Change your path back to the folder on C:\Program Files. Now use your sync feature and browse to the database on the other folder you saved on your desktop. Sync the two databases. You can now connect to both databases and see they are the same. After you do this, play arond with it until you feel confident in the sync feature.

Bert,
Hi there and thanks for listening. When I spoke of hitting the button twice I was talking about once (first time on the way out the door with the laptop) to get a proper copy of the original database onto the soon to be traveling laptop and then twice (Second time when doc and laptop return from rounds or housecall) when one returns to put the laptop back on the house network to then sync the fieldwork up the the homebase mothership server.

The reason I kept harping on this was because both in Brian's post and the other one on the Wiki, both guys were talking about first copying and pasting copies of all the important data folders from the server to the soon to be traveling laptop, and that just seemed so clumsy and fraught with user error. The whole idea of having a good sync feature is to allow the well thought out utility to do most of the dirty work and keep user error to a minimum. So in a lack of direction from AC homebase in the help files, since this is all coming from brave souls who ventured out on their own, I was just asking if all this copying and pasting was really all that needed.

You seem to be confident in the idea that it is not. That my concept of this is correct. Search to and hit sync on the way out to get a mirror copy of the server's data onto the laptop, then do it again when the laptop returns home to add to each what has happened in the other absence. Then one needs to reset the laptops path to the server if they care to have the laptop back on their in-house network.

Chime in again if we are still not talking the same here. Thanks once more for your time and insights here to one and all....
Paul

You have it exactly correct Paul. To be succinct, there is no need at all to copy and paste.

Cool,
Perhaps inbetween all my games this coming weekend, we can find a way for James Bonds to finally have his field mission.... (Strike up the music...)

I see where the difference in instructions comes in. I read and reread the Wiki before I actually saw this. It all comes down to whether or not you use your laptop on your network or not. I am assuming that those taking a laptop offsite are using it for other purposes in the office and not as a workstation. But, I guess they are rather pricey, and it may be a waste to not use it. If you were using it on the network, then it would be accessing the server's databases and not its own folder. So, at first, I could see a need to copy and paste the server folder to the laptop before leaving. But, this would assume that the laptop had no AC folder, but it does. So, I do not agree with the instructions. Here is what would actually happen.

Let's say you have a client/server setup; it doesn't matter if it's peer-to-peer, but just for the sake of this discussion. And, further, let's say this network has the server and four clients, one of which is the laptop. So, you have:

Server (main database)
Laptop (with its folder and databases)
Client 2
Client 3
Client 4

This would mean that the laptop is client 1. The numbers are irrelevant and the number of workstations is irrelevant.

But, for this example, all of the clients have a path to the database on the server. All of them have their own AC folder most likely under C:\Program Files\Amazing Charts if they accepted the default installation. All of their databases would be the same as when they installed with all entered data going to the server.

The process would not require and copying and pasting. This would be the sequence when one had to leave for outside rounds:

1. The server's AC would run sync and browse to the laptop. It would then sync over the network to the laptop ALWAYS leaving all boxes checked as you may want to schedule someone from outside of the office and you would want to know what the schedule looked like. To me it just makes sense to sync the entire database, although you would not be syncing billing or the codes databases from what I gathered during my trials. That would be an issue if that is true.
2. Now that both databases are synced and are the same, you take you laptop to your remote sites. You can use either computer now, i.e. users could still use clients in office while the laptop saved data remotely. I probably shouldn't say remotely, that's confusing. I mean out of the office.
3. Bring back laptop, connect to network and change the path of the laptop to the server. This can be done with the Utilities tool, which by now should have a shortcut on the desktop. I prefer to open the AC application, then right click on the window that comes up near the top under the name. Choose to disconnect, then restart and connect to server. Sync. I suppose you could sync either before or after you connected.

One week later, you decide to go out again, so you sync, disconnect, take the laptop out, bring it back, reconnect and sync.

It should be said that when you take the laptop out, there is no need to manually disconnect the application as it will look for the server database and bring up the dialog window to browse to its own folder.

I think it would be a good idea to edit the instructions that are on the Wiki. What do you think. I would hate to make sweeping changes to it, but if this is the correct way, then it probably should be done. I will sleep on it and work on it some more when I am rested. What do you think Paul?

Bert,
It sounds like I had envisioned it from the start two years ago when I suggested it to Jon back when we signed on!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you. Oh an by the way Thank you. And you too Brian. You were the really brave soul who really started the ball rolling here.

And if it works as you say it does, although I'm still a bit confused and miffed as to why AC does not post instructions for such nice but confusing features so more people will use them, adopt them and fall in love with their AC all the more; to Dr Jon and his crew another BIG THANK YOU! If it does what it should and it works the way it should, Thanks!

I knew something was wrong when I called tech support for an "instructional" on this and early into my conversation with the girl on the phone when I asked her; "now don't we want to copy the main server's database onto the laptop first?"; and she replied "weellll, if you want to you can". And so I said; "If I want to I can? Isn't this a very step by step, pretty much one way to do it sort of a thing? If I want to I can, doesn't sound all that reassuring to me." So then I asked, "Well if we don't first get a good clean copy of the original database onto the laptop before it leaves the office, then how does Mrs Smith chart #123 get her encounter charted to and have all her data in one folder all with the same chart number then? Otherwise if we create a new chart for Mrs Smith on the laptop, chart #1, than aren't we likely to have two separate charts for poor old Mrs Smith at the assisted living place?" and she had no real answer other than she would get back to me. I knew right then that I had a better grasp on this than she did and that I better wait for a few better skilled, brave souls to go ahead of me and Nancy, before we try it ourselves.

And yes it just makes so much more sense to take the human idiot and possible error out of the equation to make it almost foolproof so as to not have lots of frantic customers calling up, crying and demanding quick fixes for dead and damaged databases.

And if and when you are confident in the entire process yourself, then by all means, please update the Wiki if that is to sort of become our defacto owner's manual. "Now James this here is your Gateway M-275 Convertable laptop with Amazing Charts Electronic Medical Records on it for recording your field work....See if you can't bring it back in one piece this time will you?" I can almost hear "Q" now....

I guess I don't want this to be too controversial so I will write it here in this fading and obscure thread. But, I really do have a problem with this whole wiki thing. I definitely have issues with the EULA wiki, but I will save that for another time or maybe not at all.

The original wiki, wikipedia, is a brilliant concept but utilizes the collect audience of five billion people. Now, I am not suggesting that all five billion people edit, but then again probably the same percentage as the 1,000 people on here, right? Like 1%. But, I think you could could write a wiki article on Ronald Reagan and describe him as an extremely liberal democrat who never acted in the movies, and it would be corrected within minutes, and your version would be history, pardon the pun (if you know wikiology).

But, what if a well-meaning person writes a very long and very detailed 'How to' on a subject, but is fairly off the mark. If the only thing that needed editing was the part where you need to change the radio button in order to sync, then that would be how wikis work. But, this one may need a major overhaul.

Personally, while it's kind of a cool idea, I think the whole wiki instruction manual for Amazing Charts should not be written by us but rather by AC itself. I just bought TrendMicro Antivirus for my server, and the manual is 325 pages long, which I followed step by step, mind you. But, this was written by Trend Micro not by the users. I think the userboard, one of the most successful I have seen, especially if it were acted upon is the only forum we really need.

But that's just I.

When I think of Wikipedia, I remember Ronald Reagan's famous quote: "Trust, but Verify."

As regards the AC Wiki Project, there are a few things we need to keep in mind:

After a long thread like this, I'm still not clear on the best way to Synch. Sorry! I'm not stupid, so that must mean we still don't have a super-clear explanation of how to Synch.

A total newbie, coming to this thread, is going to read the first few entries and give up.

If we can pound this thread into a very concise explanation of the minimum, basic steps to Synchronize (like ONE paragraph, Bert), we can let this great, bulky, ungainly, uncertain thread slip into oblivion, and either:

* Start a new thread in Tips & Tricks entitled "How to Synchronize" (which will in turn fade away or get lost in a jumble of other threads which refer to Synchronization as the years go by). AND/OR

* Preserve the knowledge on the Wiki, and make it the treasure trove for solved problems (which will keep the relevant search terms free from clutter, for the future seeker of wisdom).

Paul and Bert, I agree it would be great to have a comprehensive Manual of All Knowledge, by Jon and Carlos. While we're waiting for that to happen (might be a long wait!), let's make the best of it.

So, let's just try to refine down the instructions for Synchronization a bit more (for me, if nobody else!), and then post it in the two places I suggested, and we'll just watch and see what happens next (Bert, I agree this is a great User Board).

Bert,
We both really need to get home. But that being said I couldn't agree with you more. Yes it's nice that guys like you share your insight and we help eachother out from time to time when and where we can, such help is still a poor substitute for a properly written user's manual by the folks who designed the product in the first place. It is sort of why I keep harping on the "in the lack of leadership thing" and my earlier statements on Sync, that the Job is not done until the paperwork is complete.

Now no offense here meant at all, but it does take one to know one best of all.... How much do ya wanna bet that Jon has a good amount of ADD just like me??? Man do I have great ideas, wonderful ideas for businesses and fixes and additions (like you too???) inventions, but I can't even keep my paperwork here at the office straight. What I would do to be able to afford an "executive secretary". Not completing the job, having a multitude of irons in the fire and being executive, CEO like, and creative as hell is PAR for the course.

Heck, my brother Josh who lives in RI studied with one of the main clinical researchers in the field, and they are in that RI, eastern mass, Harvard part of the world. Jon probably knows them himself, professionally if nothing else. Mayor and business man, Mike Bloomburg is a flaming case of ADD. I know I did some work in his original NYC TV studio. We couldn't get halfway thru building what we had all agreed upon as the design and set-up before this crazy, creative man would want to dig into it and we'd have to start all over again. How many times I tore out half my work just to start wiring and patching all over again. See how I'm tangenting here myself.....

So back to the original point. Yes we could really benefit from a properly written user manual from the designer of the product him, themselves. Now I discussed this a bit once or twice early on with Jon and Carlos I think. In the end most user's manuals sit there and collect dust and so many designers of all sorts of products feel they are a waste of time and money. My compromise suggestion was to write the thing in some amount of an e-form perhaps in the program, and it could be updated as needed easily in such a format. But for those of us who like to have hardcopy in front of us, we could either print a few pages as we attack a problem or an install now and again, or if it was properly designed, give us the option to hit a print all type of thing and we could print out the entire thing and put it in a three ring binder kind of thing. The instructions and manual for the MidMark Ritter equipment is contained within the software that came with it and one can easily print out a few pages of instructions for if and when one needs to attack something important. The way I see it is, the last place I want my instructions is trapped inside the computer that is giving me a problem. I want to be able to have a hardcopy on the desk next to me or in my lap while I try to hunt and peck my way thru the issue at hand, not flipping back and forth between screens of the manual and the actual program I am working on let's say.

Anyway, I've got late games after work tomorrow for a tourney and I'm tired and hungry as all heck. Good night...
Paul

Brian, I couldn't disagree with you more, lol. -> Said with as much humor as possible.

The post three posts up would not be a rendition of how to use Sync. I had to use all of the examples and names of computers and verbiage to communicate with Paul AND me the comparison of syncing this way to the wiki way. The paragraph quoted below would be more like it would be. I will look at it more and come up with a concise method late. Part of the problem is, unlike something like how to print to fax, something I've been doing well over two years, I have not steadily used Sync on a day to day basis. On the contrary, I have trialed it in a test environment over and over. But, that isn't quite the same as "Beta testing it." That being said, I certainly still think it needs to be written in a concise and accurate way. I'm not sure if that is on the wiki.

The problem here is UNLIKE WIKIPEDIA where a general article on say HOCKEY is edited over and over until it becomes a majority edition that reads well and educates well in the best fashion it can, instruction manuals, however small, don't play well in a wike. (Sorry for the run on sentence). This is because it is very confusing as the instructions will constantly change which will leave users confused and without any confidence in it. Think about it.

Well, Bert, we may just have to agree to disagree about the Wiki.

Here is my prediction:

1. You will figure out the most safe and efficient way to Synchronize, with your amazing brain, and will post it here.

2. There will be a little more discussion back and forth as the rest of us come to understand the process. This will result in a concise, well-written checklist.

3. I will post the checklist on the Wiki, unless you beat me to it.

4. Once posted on the Wiki, the entry will undergo minor revisions in the future, if any.

5. In days to come, someone will ask how to Sychronize, and we will have a very nice Wiki article to point them to! There will be an acknowledgment to you in the wiki entry, and people will read your name, and say, "Bert is a wise man."

So Paul,

As you know, my jeep is a pristine 2006 with nary a scratch on it. Leased. Now that you should have me convinced I should "shoot some holes," it leaves me with two questions.

1. How do I go about finding an area to take it that is good for off road newbies? Don't really want to be in a club or anything.

2. Wouldn't it be likely I would damage something, dent a fender or break something underneath that I don't know the name of that would cause Quirk Chrysler Jeep to terminate my warranty and not allow the lease to roll over or whatever it does after three years?

Oh yes. What does this have to do with wikis? Nothing, just thought it would be a refreshing change. <G> But, let's not get too far off task (speaking of ADD). Maybe answer in a PM.

It's been a long night (morning?) here at Village Medical. I tried to play with sync after we closed and I am just glad to have my old data back including Imported Items. It turns out that the instructions some of us were not so sure about were written by an AC tech and not some fellow user. So all our guesses were possibly way off although both Bert and I are still not so sure about how all of this should play out. I tried to use Sync to first copy the server data over to the laptop and almost blew out our original AC. Thank goodness for doing back ups before trying something brave or foolish. In the end I had to copy and paste back our original Schedule and Imported Items. By trying to copy the data this way, it cleaned out the Imported Items!!! and it doubled up each and every appointment in the schedule. Very Strange.

So tech support says the Sync can not be used to copy the original data to the naked laptop. That each and every time you want to travel with a fresh copy of the main database it is manual copy and paste time from the server to the laptop. Not sure when I will mess with this again after tonight's experience. So my other question is since none of us caught it; How does one know if a Wiki Post is written by AC themselves verses some well intended although possibly no smarter than we user??? Perhaps these should have some sort of a moderator, mothership type title on them so that we all know that it is not just some other user taking his best guess. Big thanks to Bert for being "On-Call" as my tech support tonight. Anyway Gotta run, I'm pretty burnt here. Have a good night.
Paul

I had an identically unsuccessful experience with Synch-ing yesterday before Retirement Center Rounds.

Before I left for rounds, instead of copy-and-pasting, I just attempted Synch from my server, thinking that it would make the database on the server and the laptop identical. Result: a red bar, reading SYNCHRONIZATION FAILED. Why? I don't know.

I then tried using Synch from the laptop, to see what the result would be. Strangely, the laptop gave me all the little signals at the bottom of the screen that everything was synchronizing properly, and told me "Synchronization Successful", but when I restarted, there was no change to the laptop database.

The foolproof method of synchronization seems to be:

Sit down at the server. Copy the "AmazingCharts" file from the Amazing Charts folder on the server.

Paste the copied "AmazingCharts" file into the Amazing Charts folder on the laptop, replacing the laptop's "AmazingCharts" file.

Disconnect the laptop from the network. Go to the nursing home and chart.

Return, and re-connect your laptop to the local network. Make sure Amazing Charts on the laptop is re-connected to the server database.

Sit down at the server. Synchronize with the laptop.

There is no foolproof method, unfortunately. What I am about to disclose after MANY hours of testing in lab environment and even directly on server will be earth shattering.

Your steps are pretty good. Actually, they are very accurate. The only thing I would change would be not to copy over the original folder. That should work, but I have seen too many strange occurrences with databases especially with AC. Obviously, you wouldn't need to copy and paste except for once.

To see my my white paper on the glaring fault of Sync, see my post. I don't use it (and I am glad), but I don't see how it is useable unless you have a big meeting with your staff before.

You're keeping me in suspense!


What exactly do you mean? I don't understand.

Almost posted.

Normally, when you copy a folder or file with the same name into a folder, it will warn you about overwriting, which you want. But, it isn't always so with AC and/or databases.

Give me five minutes.

Ya know you're right. When I restored my files from my back-ups I don't remember getting any warnings. As a matter of fact because of this lack of warnings, I then went and first cut out the old folder, and then copied and pasted the good back up into the main AC folder so I would feel secure in knowing that it had taken correctly.... I'm off to your other post now....