Most Recent Posts
AC Version 12.3
by Naeem - 05/10/2025 8:26 PM
Search for never seen patients
by Wendell365 - 05/07/2025 10:51 AM
No refills on Schedule 4 Meds
by koby - 05/06/2025 9:24 AM
Fixing PRESCRIPTION DRUG MONITORING in Windows 11 Pro
by VTWilson - 05/01/2025 12:55 PM
An automated process failed: MedsUdates
by ChrisFNP - 04/28/2025 3:49 PM
New Feature?
by ChrisFNP - 04/22/2025 6:37 PM
Here is a new one
by ChrisFNP - 04/22/2025 6:20 PM
I won't get help because I am I
by Bert - 04/22/2025 9:09 AM
Member Spotlight
Bert
Bert
Maine
Posts: 12,874
Joined: September 2003
Newest Members
It's me, Paradise Family, MedCode, MZ Medical Billi, girlfromwebpage
4,593 Registered Users
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 46
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 46
Per suggestion of others on data back up, I looked up continous data back up by a couple of companies. One seem to sell external harddrive and software package ranging from $1500 to thousands, and the other is IBM Trivoli continous data backup, which cost like about $50.

I downloaded the trial version of IBM trivoli, and installation was a snap.

I called Amazingcharts tech support about what file to back up. They apparently have changed their mind over the last 2 years. I was told 2 years ago when I upgraded to version 5, that backing up the entire Amazingcharts folder is not sufficient, and that the ONLY WAY to back up my data base is to use the AC backup from inside AC.

Now, this morning, I spoke to the tech support, and a different tech told me that if I backed up the entire AC program folder, I would have ALL the data I need, except for the program settings, which is not important anyway. So I don't understand the change in their answer.

Anyhow, I dropped the AC program file on to folders to back up, set up a native HD back up to 2 copies, and set up a remote set up as the USB fireproof drive. Clicked a button, and it took like less than 10 sec to do the initial back up.

Supposedly, it back up any changes to the AC file continously. And since it is not being backed up over the internet, it should not tie up the network with other AC users.

I have no idea if the program can truly pick up every changes in data or not, but so far the speed of the initial back up wasn't much.

If anyone has experience with IBM Trivoli continous data back up, let me know. It seems like the only way to test it is to unplug the drive, put it into another computer, and see if I can restore the data of AC with the latest back up on it...

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 46
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 46
Too good to be true....

All Trivoli did for AC is backing up the last Amazingcharts.BAK file that I did this morning.

So it can't touch the changing AC data base.

I guess that's what you need RAID for.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 46
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 46
Other info that AC told me is that if you use another software to back up AC, that it must be able to back up the SQL server file, which is in continous use at all time.

Therefore, it might explain why the Trivoli did not work.

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,874
Likes: 34
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,874
Likes: 34
Originally Posted by pinetree
I guess that's what you need RAID for

Pinetree,

I will get back to you later on this subject. But, if there is anything you should take from this thread, this is NOT what RAID is for. RAID is for redunancy and performance. It is not in anyway for backups and protection of data.


Bert
Pediatrics
Brewer, Maine

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,874
Likes: 34
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,874
Likes: 34
Originally Posted by pinetree
Now, this morning, I spoke to the tech support, and a different tech told me that if I backed up the entire AC program folder, I would have ALL the data I need, except for the program settings, which is not important anyway. So I don't understand the change in their answer.
While both answers have merit, the above is the correct answer. But, I don't know how many times I have to say on here that AC support is great with AC, but not so much with networking and SQL. SQL is a whole different animal that IT people takes years to learn. Take my explanation with a grain of salt.

This of the whole situation as building a house. You must have a foundation, and you must have the house. If a hurricane comes, all you care about is the house, 'cause you can always build another foundation with your eyes closed and put the house back on.

The foundation is SQL Server and the house is your user databases. They are two entirely different things.

Let's start with SQL Server. SQL Server runs as a service, and is the engine that allows your databases to run. It, itself, contains databases called Master, Model, MSDB and sometimes Tempdb.

The master database is, by far, them most import database as it allows the databases to start and contains most of the settings. All of the other databases have their place but are not as important. If you go to your main computer and type "services.msc" without the quotes in your Run field, all of your services will come up. If you scroll down to the S's, you will find SQL Server (AMAZINGCHARTS). This combination is call an instance. An instance is basically your databases in AC connected to the SQL Server engine. You can have many instances on one SQL Server. Obviously, don't do anything to this.

Your user databases are contained in the AC folder. They contain ALL of your Amazing Charts data according to their names. Codes and Meds contain same and, as you will note, do not change much in size. the AmazingCharts database is THE database and THE only one that is mission critical. All of these databases are attached to SQL Server.

Unlike Access databases which are standalone, one cannot simply copy and paste your user databases. They are attached to the SQL Server (foundation of the house). There is a way to detach them in AC Utilities and move them, but I wouldn't suggest that if you don't feel comfortable. So simply copying and pasting your AC folder is not a good idea, although you may get away with it.

A 3rd party backup program can back up your folder, but ideally you would want them to not be in use.

There are several ways to back up SQL databases and/or user databases.

1. First, let's look at a full backup of your server. Most good backup programs will either have "Open Files" or use VSS (Volume Shadow Services). The program will start and the first thing it will do is have Volume Shadow Services take a "snap shot" of the databases so that the snapshot is backed up.
2. If you know the username and password of the SQL database, the backup program can back up the SQL Server and your user databases. In fact, most good backup programs will require these in order to add SQL Server to the backup. This backup will include the four databases of SQL Server and the user databases in the AC folder.
3. If you have the username and password you can use SQL Server Management Studio to access the SQL Server and set up backups.
4. Your backup program (again if its good enough) can allow you to use a standalone SQL Server backup. Not to get too technical, but it will run everyday starting with a Full backup and then doing what are called transactional backup as often as every five minutes. These T-backups take seconds. But, again, you must have the username and password.

Now, let's get to CDP. Continuous Data Protection can certainly back up databases such as Exchange Server, Oracle or SQL or others. It would be hard to fathom large companies paying in the thousands for a backup program which could only back up files.

If you look at your trail IBM Tripoli CDP carefully, it only backs up files and, therefore, will not back up databases, hence your failure to back up AC. Acronis True Image Backup for Home costs more than $50.00. The above company along with Falconstor and SonicWall can easily continuously backup your server and its databases, but they will also need the username and password.

As you are seeing, the only programs that can back up SQL Server in its entirety and while it is in use are programs which use VSS in their backups. On top of this VSS is running constantly and backing up folders you decide. As an example, I just looked right now, and the AC folder and databases are backed up every four hours from today back to March 12. Any of these can be used and not only that, they can be opened and any file or folder can be copied and pasted anywhere.

Now to the question of SQL Server databases and user databases. Again, the latter and especially your AmazingCharts are the mission critical ones. Lose them without a backup and your practice is likely closed. If you back up only those, you can likely reattach them. The Master database will see them and likely everything will be fine. If you want to move them to another computer, it is helpful to have the SQL Server databases, but, of course, you could re-install SQL and detach the user databases and attach your backups.

So, the bottom line, make sure you are backing up your databases and AC's will do that. But, I would have other backups. If you have between $250 and $500, you can go to www.backupassist.com and get the best 3rd party backup program for your money.

Sorry for the long post and sorry for the complexity.


Bert
Pediatrics
Brewer, Maine

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,874
Likes: 34
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,874
Likes: 34
http://www.backupassist.com/BackupAssist/index.html

Note the SQL Server continuous backup at the bottom right. Of course, this is an add-0n.

This does not include the backup which contains SQL Server using VSS.


Bert
Pediatrics
Brewer, Maine

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 8
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 8
I'd like to vouche for Backupassist as well.

Bert,
Excellent explanation. Very splendid.

JamesNT


James Summerlin
My personal site: http://www.dataintegrationsolutions.net
james@dataintegrationsolutions.net
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,874
Likes: 34
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,874
Likes: 34
Thanks James. Coming from you that is quite a compliment.


Bert
Pediatrics
Brewer, Maine


Moderated by  ChrisFNP, DocGene, JBS, Wendell365 

Link Copied to Clipboard
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 115 guests, and 25 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
JBS 4
Bert 3
koby 3
Top Posters
Bert 12,874
JBS 2,985
Wendell365 2,366
Sandeep 2,316
ryanjo 2,084
Leslie 2,002
Wayne 1,889
This board is dedicated to the memory of Michael "Indy" Astleford. February 6, 1961 -- April 16, 2019




SiteLock
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5