Home Forums Discussions Problems Zero response after sending databases to techs.

So over month after sending our AC databases to tech support since we have been unable to use the offsite backup that we pay for. Even local backups have had a sporadic success rate, and we haven't been able to get a response back from Guardian Angel Support or anyone since the databases have been submitted.

I've called (everyone says they'll call back), left messages, and re-sent our databases multiple times. My assumption was that a grand a year per provider for support would get us actual support since I'm of the mind that anything can go wrong in the meantime without viable offsite backup redundancy.

In the meantime, I've tried local backups and NAS backups and I get error messages each time that halts the process before the database is completely copied. I'm hoping someone here has an idea for me to try out. Thanks for any ideas.

Try establishing an instant message from the website here:

http://amazingcharts.com/support/help-me-now/

They usually respond quickly and hopefully move towards finding a solution

Does the backup write to a local/network drive so that you can take a copy off-site with you?

The first question is whether the DB is being successfully backed up from a mechanics perspective. Without that, you have a significant issue that is critical.

If the backup is actually being accomplished, the next question is, "Is the backup any good?" To determine this you need to take the backup to another machine with AC fully installed (it is a 'Main Computer'), and run a restore. This will tell you ofthe backup is use-able.

The next question is transmission to the AC servers - this is more a network connectivity issue. Keep in mind that if you are including Imported Items, there is a file size limit of ~ 4GIGs. This is a limitation of Windows servers, if you have a larger file you'll need to look at a *nix based remote backup service, and probably one that can handle file differentials.

These last considerations are significantly more complex, so check the other items first, and it you are generating good backup files, go to walk-out backups for now. (walk out the door with your backup files on an external drive.)

If testing validates that the remote service is failing for some reason(s) beyond your control, I would think that AC would be receptive to amending your backup renewal date appropriately. YMMV.

Thanks for the feedback.

I use a usb thumb drive 3x a week and do offsite and networked NAS backups daily. Well, this is the case when offsite is working for me and it hasn't in months. The issue is that it will start the backup compression process and in about 2 minutes start giving error messages suggesting that the database is corrupted and needs to be uploaded to tech support. I'd love to use the backup automator, but I've never gotten that to work with any reliability so I have to manually backup. Hopefully these problems are related.

I backup imported items locally (box remains unchecked), since I'm above the offsite size limits if I include them. I back these up to the NAS.

Today I've actually managed to get the situation elevated to a supervisory tech I've worked with before who's helped us out.

Well, all the backups in the world will not help if your main server crashes. I have just spent the better part of a week and a half dealing with this issue. I now have alopecia totalis. After the long Christmas holiday I came into a server which would not boot up. The dreaded yellow flashing light. I managed to get it up and running only to have it go down again about 5 minutes alter. I got online and did some research on Dell server tech sites. I ran out and replaced the internal battery and the server came up for about an hour. I managed to get a week of schedules printed off before it went down again.
I finally called "the guy". On the advice of the tech sites and Dell support, we replaced the power supply, no go, replaced the motherboard, no go, replaced the processor, no go (and mind you none of these parts were readily available as Dell uses only their own proprietary junk and they had to be ordered and shipped).
My hard drives are RAID controlled and hot swaps so I was pretty sure my data was there. I also had a tape back up, an external hard drive back up, a back up to an old server (running SB 2000) and off site back up to Mozy Pro (which by the way I am canceling as it was very difficult trying to get to it).
After everything else failed (including Dell support which sucked), "the guy" found the very same server on Craig's list in a town 90 minutes away. He drove up there and bought it for $350, switched out the hard drives and voila!
Not having a working EMR was bad enough (and I actually could have restored the AC back ups to my desktop) but my PM program needed the full SQL server (which I was only backing up to the tape drive)so I could not bill a dime for almost 2 weeks.
So, Bert, I have learned a great deal from this. I am now backing up the entire server to an external hard drive. Yes, it takes a long time but I never want to go through this again.

Oh, and let me say that Daryl at AC support was fantastic! I have never had any issue with their support

Oh, man... my worst nightmare.

You might consider our approach in the future, now that you have a second server (if you resurrect the old one, which you have almost finished.) That is to have a second server being frequently backing up the main server totally, so it is the work of but a couple of seconds to switch over to the backup; you can synch with the primary later.

It originally came up @ ACUC 2010; bare metal restores, and we have had to do this for clients a few times recently for a variety of reasons.

Because the tools are of various level of arcane geekness required, we have actually been filming various aspects of the process, the better to share with folks.

No promises for when the finished video packages will be complete, but there are some awesome F/OSS tools out there for bringing machines back from the dead.

@Royce,

I just glanced over your issues, so I may be a bit off. First, you may have more luck using a Seagate or WD external drive for backups to take home. Make sure your Thumb Drive is NTFS and not FAT. That is a huge difference in size. Check properties and see. Some will let you reformat in NTFS. If not, get an external hard drive for $120 that holds 160GBs.

Second, stop using AC's backup. I would never trust my data to it. I go over this all the time and went over it at the conference. As my anatomy prof used to say over and over, "General to specific." Get GOOD backup software like Acronis and/or Backup Assist. Notice I said AND/or. I use both. Back up the ENTIRE computer nightly, then use AC to back up to an external drive in your office for specific backups. I back up my entire server, but if my AC went down, I would use the .enc first. The nice thing about Backup Assist is you can back up the SQL databases down to the minute if you wish. Takes the entire back up of SQL-AC in < 0.3 seconds. I actually do it every hour, but I am not that anal.

There is something to be said about backing up the actual .enc file online, but if you want something dependable go with Jungle Disk. Again, you can back up just AC or the entire computer. We do just the data, which is still a lot. (for instance backing up your imported items).

Given that AC's backup is just way in the background, I love it. If it were my only backup, I would be flipping out.

@Leslie -- yikes, that hurts. Only advice I can give based on the age of your server, is get 24 hour/5 day service. Don't call them and work with them. Call them, and tell them you will see them tomorrow at 8 am and ask them what they want in their coffee. Tell them to stay until it is fixed given you have paid that warranty. I have always had good luck with Dell, you just can't let each new tech try to reinvent the wheel. Just say, thaks, the battery was fun, now please send someone out as my warranty says you have to do.

David, your system is a good one. And, it is one argument for peer-to-peer workgroup. That method is horrible on a domain. I mean it works, it just isn't the plug and play method you describe for workgroups. You basically have to completely take apart your domain, which is not painful on the front end but extremely so on the back end.

Royce,

Just shots in the dark. I am sure you are backing up as an administrator with the Run As thing. And, have you tried backing up from another computer. It is the same thing, obviously, but it's worth a shot.

As always, consider www.experts-exchange.com

Even though we pay support doesn't mean they know how to fix everything. I have had Microsoft take my $250 and tell me it isn't fixable. Doesn't happen very often, like never, but every once in awhile.

Bert,

I'd like to know how Backupassist backups up an AC database without the SA password or Windows Authentication.

JamesNT

Well, they don't allow Windows Authentication. You can't do it without an sa username and password. Guess you just have to know it.

Now, that is if you are backing up just the SQL database itself. If you are backing up the AC folder with its databases, it will back that up with the entire server.

Bert,

There apparently is no Dell-certified repair center in my city. The tech said there was not one close...sounded screwy to me.

Now, regarding AC back up. Since I am re-establishing my back up plan, I have noticed that in the AC Backup option, there no longer is the ability to choose another site on the network. I used to be able to go to my network places and choose my older server as a back up site...Network Places is no longer there since the update to V5. Anyone know where it went?

1. Have you contacted Dell and asked for a warranty extension first, then tell them you live in Siberia
2. Get a real backup. I will buy it for you.
3. Not sure without looking at 5.1, but I ALWAYS back up to a USB or eSATA drive connected directly to the server and not over the network. Much better. I have NAS, but I do not plan on doing a bare metal from there. Also, just back up by default to the
AC folder and then move it by copy and paste to somewhere else. You can do a script that will do that for you. I can help.

Technology knows no boundaries and cannot be stopped.

Jungle Disk will back up the AC backup folder an hour after you do a manual .enc backup.

But start with an external drive connected directly to your server.

Yes, we contacted Dell. This server is about 5 years old. Remember, I do use a real back up...Backup Assist. So I am currently using BUA to back up the entire server to a tape drive (old server, remember?) and to back up to an EHD. I also use the AC back up program and was having it place a copy on the old server "just because" but now I can't do that.

Leslie - to set a local backup you have to edit the local path that you want the backup stored, IRRC it is under the advanced button in Amazing Backup.

Leslie and others:

Why back it up to an external hard drive when it would be much cheaper and easier to back up to carbonite or something like that? Am I missing something? If you have an external hard drive sitting with the server and you get flood damage or a fire, you still have the same problem correct?

Just wondering.

Indy,

That is where the setting used to be. Since updating to V5 there are no network options from which to choose (or at least I can't find them)

Ketan,

Having multiple back up plans and destinations is the ideal (as Bert will tell you). But, believe me, not all the offsite back up resources are easy to restore from. I back up to MozyPro and when I crashed, my data was not easily recoverable.

Keta,

Also, if you are backing up daily to a different hard drive, if it floods today you should still have yesterday's back up on a hard drive that you have taken off site with you.

Sorry....Ketan.

Oh okay, you are taking that hard drive offsite with you daily. SOrry I missed that part. And I missed that you were already using an offsite backup. I will have to ask my server guy if I can back up to one of my laptops that i take home with me daily.

Holy cow. Let's talk beer. I think this is the only way to explain this. OK, it's Sunday, and the game is on. You sit back in your favorite chair, chips and dips in one hand and an ice cold Heineken (Budweiser whatever) in the other hand.

Now, you are drinking the beer. What all can go wrong? You can drop it, spill it, it can get warm. Oh my god, the dog jumped up on you, and the beer crashed.

You look to your right. Right beside your couch is a small cooler. You always have a back up beer there everyday. Guess what? If the dog got you, it may get the cooler, BUT, it probably won't. It's the cheapest, most low-tech backup beer you have (your external drive). Why do I need this cooler backup when I have what is coming up for backups? BECAUSE IT IS FAST! IT IS RIGHT THERE. And, if the beer or data is there, it will likely be your best data. I want to restore my broken beer over the commercial. AND, it is ONLY the beer I need, three if I, six if Leslie, lol.

Now over in the fridge, 30 steps away is my whole beer backup. An entire case. The fridge is safer and more secure. But, there are also more issues with it. The beer could fall on the way over. My backup...errr, beer may not even get in there. And, since it is my beer fridge, and I trust it, I may not even check the temp there often, so the beer is actually corrupted. And, don't forget electricity. But, the backups are better and there are more of them. Why do I need the fridge. Because, the damned ice may melt in the cooler. I don't want to just depend on that.

Now, what if it floods? Last time I checked, the chances of a flood was less than getting AIP and SLE on the same day. But, hey, who knows. So better take one or two off-site each day. So, I take them to work. Every day. Every day? Well, almost every day? Almost every day? Ok, it's been a month. Would you leave me alone. I have the damned cooler. So, each day your co-workers watch you lug in a beer or two and put it in the fridge at work. So, that is really safe, but it takes a lot of work. If you really want to do it right, set up CDP from your office to work. $$$$$ but pretty cool.

Now, I need an online. I heard those are a little pricey, but the beer stays cold, and there is always someone watching it. And the 7/11 isn't that far. Yeah, they will hold 5GBs of data for $5.00 a piece. And, if you need it, you have to get it or have someone bring it to you.

Oh, and how do you take the beer to work with a thumb drive? You just grab one beer and rub ice over it the whole time.

So, I've got a:

1. External set of drives for daily backups
2. Backups to NAS
3. Take a backup home...oh..weekly
4. Backup online

And, if the data is lost or the server crashes? I'm using the cooler. And, even better, if I lose my data, do I go to the store, the fridge at work, the fridge at home, the cooler...nope I will probably just open AC and open Backups and grab the latest .enc file.

Online beer. Thinking that would be a great Superbowl commercial.

I thought the same thing. That's where the Bud came from.

It would suck for those with dial-up.

I absolutely love your analogy! Considering that I brew my own beer as well, and often have one batch in the planning, one in the primary fermenter, and one in a secondary, along with the bottles: how would this relate to your backup? Rebuilding a database from scratch? I have the AC backup in its own folder, the external HDD, and Carbonite online backup. I figure this should be pretty safe. I also take a copy on the USB key as well at times.

Not too shabby. Maybe back up the whole computer daily or weekly with some good backup software.

I guess you don't need too much refrigeration where you live.