Home Forums Discussions General Discussion Subpoenaed again

Hi everyone,

I can't stay on the boards late tonight, because of a wonderful subpoena from DHHS. Have to be in court by 8:00AM probably just to be told that the parties have worked it out. I actually got a summons from both DHHS and the parents' lawyers. Go figure.

So, along with the subpoena I received a check for $11.60. ($1.60 for travel and $10.00 for my time) I'll take suggestions from anyone as to where and what I should spend it on.

Well, you're a Pediatrician, not a Cardiologist, so you can use it to buy a yummy breakfast with bacon, pancakes, and ...oops. That costs $12.00 (NY is expensive!)

So, round on my Mainecare patient at 6:00AM ($31.00 -- just random number Paul), court at 8:00AM ($11.60), Denny's at 7:00AM for breakfast ($12.00 -- 40 cents from me and no tip), taking grief all morning from my patients as I am an hour behind: Priceless!

Ya know I was gonna suggest Denny's too. Ya beat me to it, shucks. Can't ya still get the "grand slam" at denny's for under $10 bucks??? Or Chicken Fried Steak, yum, yum.... No wonder we all need Lipitor...Paging Dr Jarvik.

Have fun, better you than me my friend.

Paul,

First, it's a Grand Jury not a Grand Slam, lol. And, many would I love to see you in there. You would really tell them. They made me wait four hours. The bizarre thing was there was this extremely nice lady next to me with her husband. She works in a bakery and got off at 4AM and had to drive an hour. So she was dead tired. I let her go in ahead of me. But, DHHS paid her $17.04 when I only got $11.60. What's the deal with that, lol. She probalby go to go to Friendly's.

Do you really need to attend the subpoena? Is it a criminal proceeding? If it is civil (and you are not being named as a defendant), you should be able to demand adequate payment for your appearance, waiting time, and preparation. For me it runs in the $500/hour range which discourages most from obtaining my testimony.
Many subpoenas are figments of the attorney's imagination. I get subpoenas for records from attorneys in which they just want to look at the record without paying for them. I send those requests to my malpractice carriers to see if I really do need to respond to their request. So far, every time it has been a NO. On occasions it is a NO NO NO where patient has not signed off for such records and releasing them to the attorney's subpoena may be a violation of improper records release.

One should always do civic duties

--especially if one is employed, you have a lot of rights including Jury Duty excuse. I always give my staff off for Jury Duty. For self employed people, in God we trust, has to work.

I got a letter too, wrote to judge, that I have to do this, this, that and all the other things you and I do, he was very nice.

Long story short, I came back to work instead. Good luck.

Roy,
You are a very wise man. I'm so glad you are on this board. You make some wonderful points, including getting "free" legal advice from your malpractice carrier. In the end they really have a vested interest in your walking a straight line. If you can call it free, we all certainly have paid dearly for it, in most cases.

And again this all relates back to that other CHITT and civil liberties thread of protecting our patients right to privacy. It is amazing just how willing most people give in to these requests without a second thought to why.

Joe, in NYS now there is the nobody gets off of jury duty garbage. There was even a photo op of Mayor Blumberg going to Jury duty recently. They won't even allow a Dr to take her pager and cell phone in with her. As I said to Nancy, we've got these friends, the wife is an Alzheimer's Neuro Doc that Nancy referes to and the husband is the head of transplant surgery here at SUNY Upstate, "Well the good news is we found a donor for you for that multi-organ transplant you needed, but the bad news is we can't get thru to your doc, the head of transplant surgery to do the procedure because he is being held incommunicato (did I butcher that word, my spelling stinks) at jury duty. But his resident will be glad to do it for you...." What horseCHITT. Really.

Anyway, Roy you keep right on reminding all of us as well as the good work on the behalf of your patients. I've got to go do a last minute plumbing repair in my bsmt to the kitchen hot water, pssssssss. Have a great weekend everybody.
Paul

Bert,
I'm confused.
Are you being subpoenaed for jury duty?
Or to provide information that could easily be derived from your charting? Do they want you to confirm the information?

For the most part, they could depose you from your office... It's wrong to be taken out of your office (as a solo-practitioner) because a lawyer wants a warm body to confirm information they could get through a more convenient venue.

And I think it is your moral duty to your profession to get paid for your time and your inconvenience if it has to do with civil issues. Our profession gives in to giving away freebies and before you know it, our profession is being robbed blindly. Take for example, Medicaid reimbursement, hospital call, nursing home demands for treatment without visit, middle of the night phone call for having yellow urine, phony subpoenas, and the list goes on. Giving community service according to your own term is great--but it should never be coerced.

Roy,

I wish that were true. Of course, I am confused. For some reason I was subpoenaed by both sides. Our lawyer (the one for the mother) is a nice guy, but it court-appointed and doesn't know a pediatrician from an anesthesiologist. I basically told him anesthesiologists make $300,000 a year and take call one in ten.

I don't think that the lawyer would be able to prove his case half as well with progress notes compared to my testimony. I was able to testify that the 10-month-old and two-year-old are happy, do behave well in the room for their age, are well developed, don't need to come to every well child exam that Medicaid deems necessary, are up to date on their shots and would be better off with their parents than in some foster home somewhere. I had to explain that less than 1% of my Mainecare (Medicaid) patients refuse vaccinations while > 9% of my private insurance patients refuse them. I had to testify that while it is possible that prenatal exposure to Percoets may cause developmental delays that it isn't necessary linked to autism. I had to rebut the child psychologist who had seen the children for three hours total that the fact that the two-year-old was slow to warm to strangers he was not show any signs of ASD. I had to rebut the child psychologist's testimony that no 10-month-old should ever be left in a car seat for any time at all out of a car or it would inhibit their development. I wanted to, but couldn't state that this same child psychologist walked down the hallway outside the courtroom screaming to anyone who would listen that "there are nothing but sick people in the world," and "the lawyer for DHHS were not trying the case in a manner that would remove the kids from the home." Sorry, for the complete recital of that case from my perspective.

The issue here is that we all used to think there were three branches of government: the judicial, the executive and the legislative. But, I have come to find out after more than ten years of practice in Maine, that DHHS in Maine constitues the fourth branch. There is no organization (and this is not hyperbole here) that has more unlimited and uncheck power than DHHS. They subpoenaed me for the incredible fee of $11.60. And, although I have threatened to now show up unless they reimbursed me fairly, their would be a warrant for contempt of court; and they would arrest me right at my office.

Wow. I have never heard of a physician being arrested in his office for not showing up to court in a civil matter. I have never heard of a judge issuing an warrant for contempt of court just because you did not provide testimony in a civil matter-- this is incredible. I think the ACLU will have a field day with this one. Do you have any papers threatening to arrest you on this matter?
If you are truly subpoenaed, I don't think they need to offer you any money. You fees should be negotiable -- but...oops, I forgot we don't really live in a free country.

I consider it a harassment that they coerced your [censored] out of work when they could have performed a deposition from your office to get all those answers from you. (I wonder if you can sue for damages in federal court in that you are being threatened with arrest and being compensated in such an insulting way--human rights violation). I'm sure that you could introduce a resolution to your state medical society and point out the oppressive regime.

In China, when they execute a prisoner, the prisoner is paraded around town with his head shaven and hands bound, taken to a ditch where there is a marker with the prisoner's name that is crossed off with red paint. Then the body is left in the open ditch until his/her family pays for fees for the lead slug and a procedure fee for high velocity implantation of the lead slug. We're not too far behind!

I sort of agree with Roy, Have you asked your own attorney or those of your state medicial society about all this? What balls to take a practicing solo doc out of his office on a work day to sit in court for hours, for the insulting fee of $12 bucks!!! So then you can render your professional opinions and observations on a matter that is of such great importance that it needs a court to be involved!!! Think about it for a moment. You're that critical, that important, but then they jerk you off like that. You poor SOB. What bullchitt! Really.

If you haven't already done so, I would really double check this. Also, if I'm not mistaken there are actual codes that you should be able to submit to someone for both deposed and court based testimony. Someone who really knows their coding here help us out on this, please. Thanks....

I'll write to our attorney at MMA. But, for me, a subpoena from DHHS (the state) is a subpoena.

Bert,
It's one thing to honor a supenia for it's legal weight and seriousness; but to be so taken advantage of while you are that critical piece of the puzzle is pure bull and an insult to you and all docs. How dare anyone bring a doc in for testomony, for their professional opinion, under legal oath for the piddly sum of $12 bucks! Let Joe the grease monkey from down the road at the local quick lube render his opinion for that kind of cash. You are an f'ing board certified, licensed physician for crying out loud! Who is forgoing a good days worth of paying patients no less so as to be there for your so important professional findings and opinion. Really....Go Fish!

Nobody should be able to drag a practicing physician out of his practice for the better part of a day, to render his professional opinion for $12 Bucks. I'm willing to bet that you had to review your notes, put a few things together to bring with you to support your opinion and just in general get prepared to present and defend your position too, right? Don't tell me that such preparation and time spent is not worthy of appropriate compensation. I'm sure that neither sides' attornies were in attendence for a merger $12 bucks, now were they??? Then why should you be there under such terms and conditions either. BullCHITT, pure and totally BullCHITT.

Please tell me you are going to investigate this further and get back to us all on this. This is cause for a strike is ever there was one.... I'll stop cursing and carrying on now....Now everybody sing along: "Solidarity for ever....Solidarity for ever, solidarity for ever, our union keeps us strong...."

Good Night and Good Luck,
Paul

I did some following up with personnel at the state attorney general's office. Subpoenas can be signed by anyone (even a monkey can sign it). It carries no legal weight unless it is signed by a judge. Think about it... you and I can sign subpoenas, too!
I am at this moment looking at a subpoena that looks official and I was formally served this subpoena (had to sign for it). Sent it to Physician's Insurance. Guess what?

The subpeona carries no legal weight in the State of Washington. If I were to respond to this data due to this subpoena would be INAPPROPRIATE disclosure. I'll be happy to send you a redacted FAX of this supeona.

Guys,
If the thing carriers no weight, does that put guys like Bert back in the driver's seat to negotiate a reasonable fee for his time and services in these kind of matters. Pay up or buzz off??? At least now he can pick and choose who he cares to waste his productive time for (ya, ya, treat 'em all "equally"). Bert I'm curious who paid you this $12 bucks and set the rate for it? The court, Mainecaid (Mainecoon, I love big fluffy cats) or what ever you guys call it up there? I'd still like to know if you are free to set a private fee and expect payment for your services on these types of matters.

We need to share and know more about these types of things to help protect ourselves and our docs from these types of abuses. Let us know how this all works out....

Well, this certainly does get me to thinking. I received two subpoenas, one from the state and the other from the defense lawyer. Of course, nothing against anyone with aol and hotmail accounts, but I would think that attorneys with their own law firms wouldn't have aol.com and hotmail.com. Certainly, one shouldn't have to add 097 to your name to make sure it is not used by anyone else.

You can't read the signature on the lawyer one. His name should be under it and typed. He paid me nothing but, of course, his subpoena kind of snuck up on me. DHHS subpoenaed me the week before, and I rather sure there was a judge name. You really don't know DHHS Maine. There signature is at leat 10 times more threatening than a judge. They OWN the state.

Next time I will run it by the MMA's lawyer.